In this episode recorded at TechTown Detroit, Lei heads to Detroit to meet Tu in person for the first time!
They spend the busy week participating in both auto show and non-auto show related events.
In this episode recorded at TechTown Detroit, Lei heads to Detroit to meet Tu in person for the first time!
They spend the busy week participating in both auto show and non-auto show related events.
CEM #83
Recorded on 9/15/22 at TechTown Detroit
Tu Le:
Hi, everyone, and welcome to China EVs & More where my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the China EV, AV and mobility sectors. This week we will add a new wrinkle to the show because both Lei and I are in Detroit for the auto show. We will go over everything we've done this week, which has been plenty. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. If you enjoy the show, please help us get the word out to other enthusiasts, and of course tune in again next week.
My name is Tu Le. I am managing director at SinoAuto Insights, a management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech-focused products and services to the mobility and transportation sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at sinoautoinsights.com, which I encourage you all to do. Lei, good afternoon. Can you please introduce yourself?
Lei Xing:
Good afternoon! This is the first time ever that I’ve said. It used to be good morning from you and good evening from me. So good afternoon…
Tu Le:
And digitally too.
Lei Xing:
Yes! And I am your co-host Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. This is episode #83. And this is the first episode where Tu and I are in the same room, not only in the same continent, but in the same State, in the same city, in this is a location right now…
Tu Le:
We've actually spent too much time together now after 18 months of not even been…
Lei Xing:
After 18 months. This is our first time doing this in person in the same room. We are at TechTown Detroit, which is a community, accelerator, hub, whatever you want to call it. And this is a building where the Chevy Corvette was designed. And they're letting us use, this is actually a podcast room, so big thank you to TechTown Detroit. And this past week, I think calling it exciting is an understatement. It's been incredible!
Tu Le:
Personal highs: being able to meet you.
Lei Xing:
Same here!
Tu Le:
Being able to see, especially with, because we thought it was a bit underwhelming, the agenda for the media week. But because Biden showed up and Buttigieg showed up, I think it really grabbed the world's attention because Biden walking around the Detroit Auto Show, because there weren't that many introductions or global introductions for vehicles. And so that added a wrinkle that was a bonus for us because we planned on coming even before sure Biden announced that he was going to stop by so…
Lei Xing:
I had planned this week to be sort of a full-on Detroit, Motown, Motor City, whatever you want to call it, experience. So far, as I said, it's been incredible starting right off the bat when I got off the plane last Saturday, Tu and I, the first thing we did was having our first beer together at Hockey Town. It’s a pub right next to Little Caesars Arena.
Tu Le:
And right across the street from Comerica Park and Ford Field.
Lei Xing:
Yep. And then afterwards we had dinner at Ima in Corktown.
Tu Le:
Yes. Friend of SinoAuto Insights, Mike Ransom.
Lei Xing:
So unlike our all-other episodes before where we have read off headlines of what's been happening, I’m going to be recapping these sights and sounds over this past week. And we'll have, obviously, China EVs & More related content in there. But I think it's worth just, I wrote this script in 10 minutes, a thousand words on what we have done this past week. And so that was Saturday. On Sunday, we had a nice brunch.
Tu Le:
Yeah. That's right.
Lei Xing:
Right before the Lions’ game. I went to the Lions game, that was my first NFL game ever.
Tu Le:
Where 60,000 of our closest friends cheered on the Lions, to defeat of 38 to 35.
Lei Xing:
And, in that game. I think what I felt was I understood that the Lions have always been an underdog. And I keep thinking that's been the way for Detroit, that's been the way for the Big 3. in the EV space. They've always been underdog and they're trying to catch up to the top dog, which is Tesla, and some of the other top dogs.
Tu Le:
I have to say, so having Lei and another good friend of mine come into town, I wanted to have them personally experience Detroit outside of what you see in the news, because it's a great town. I think there's a resurgence that's really starting to gain steam and build a critical mass. And so I really wanted to be that person that showed them the good, the bad, and the hopeful, which I hope I’ve been able to do to.
Lei Xing:
Tu, you've been a great host.
Tu Le:
Ambassador. That's what I meant.
Lei Xing:
And pun intended. So, then after the Lions game, we had Detroit pizza at this place called Michigan & Trumbull, and it was awesome.
Tu Le:
It was only what 4 days ago, but it feels like we've done so many things.
Lei Xing:
And that was Sunday. On Monday, I went to the Henry Ford Museum and the Rouge Factory Tour, and I met Steve LeVine.
Tu Le:
The journalist and writer of The Electric.
Lei Xing:
And I met him for the first time. Remember, for those of you that listen to us, he was one of our guests on a previous MAX episode talking about batteries.
Tu Le:
Super knowledgeable, super interesting, super curious.
Lei Xing:
So I went to the museum and the factory tour with him, meeting him for the first time, and then I had to pick up my tux with the Charity Preview tonight, in Dearborn. So Steve and I went to a Lebanese restaurant called Le Shish for lunch. We had a quick lunch there. So experiencing different cuisines that's available in Detroit proper. I picked up my tux for the Charity Preview at Men's Warehouse. Then we had our happy hour at The Brakeman.
Tu Le:
Cool place.
Lei Xing;
And we met John McELroy, who's you know…
Tu Le:
Legend here in Detroit, in automotive journalism, and the nicest guy you'll ever meet, but the most knowledgeable number one, and the most still very, very well connected. But we did get one scoop on him, right?
Lei Xing:
Yes, yes, about the NIO
Tu Le:
Mobileye
Lei Xing:
Mobileye ES8 being in testing in Detroit. And then Tuesday we went to the Battery Show. Supposedly it's the biggest battery show and battery technology (show) in North America, but probably in the world. And I went there early in the morning and I got to hear Bob Galyen, the former CTO of CATL talk about the battery market prospects and actually clearing up some of the mystery surrounding the early days CATL and then meeting some of the battery startups like Intecells, which was started by this lady who used to work at GM Shanghai, right?
Tu Le:
Dr. Xiaohong (Shawn) Gayden. She is a Ph.D. and I believe 25 years with General Motors, worked in Shanghai for a number of years, I think twice and retired and is now running a startup, and so good luck with her.
Lei Xing:
Yeah and it makes me, and you as well, to think that this is the golden opportunity for them. Because of the IRA that was just passed, that you are going to see these startups…
Tu Le:
And the person we saw this morning this a hug opportunity for him.
Lei Xing:
Right. So, which was Our Next Energy. They were at the battery show and they unveiled the anode-free 1,007 Wh/L LFP battery
Tu Le:
That dropped like a hammer.
Lei Xing:
Prismatic, and we saw that at the battery show and just, if you look at this EV space, if you look at this tree, we have the EVs, and then battery is in that specific place. This show, basically, if you think about batteries, ok it's a battery. But that's another huge branch from the batteries. All these sorts of technologies, films, harnesses, chords, cells…
Tu Le:
And Mujeeb did mention this morning because I asked him, how was the battery show relative to years past? And he said there seemed to be a lot more energy, a lot more people, and a lot more excitement about what's going into space. And that has a lot to do with the Biden Administration passing the IRA, so.
Lei Xing:
Sure. And then in the morning we were at the battery show and we had lunch with Rudi von Meister, who by the way, is one of the earliest expats in China. He was the first chief rep of Delphi China. So that was in the early 90s.
Tu Le:
Still very connected and we ate at a Chinese restaurant.
Lei Xing:
And someone that I've known for almost 30 years since then. And we ate a nice Sichuan Chinese restaurant right across from the battery show. And Rudi, he has one of the best Chinese names for a foreigner. His Chinese name is Wan Ruyi, which means “10,000 fortunes.” You remember someone by his name like that and we reminisced the past. Then that afternoon we went to the Book Depository next to the Michigan Central Station which being renovated into a mobility hub.
Tu Le:
So, briefly, Newlab, which is a Brooklyn-based innovation lab, is opening another branch in Detroit focused on mobility. And they've partnered with Ford Motor Co., on behalf of Ford Motor Co. to manage the space. And there's actually two buildings being renovated. One is the Book Depository, and the next is Michigan Central Station, which was an old train station in Detroit that fell into disrepair a long time ago. It's one of the most beautiful buildings in Detroit. So I can't wait until it's fully renovated with people, energy, startups. And so we'll come back and check that out once it's fully renovated but…
Lei Xing:
Right, and then after that, Tu being a great host he is, drove me to different plants, so Highland Park.
Tu Le:
Where the Model T was built. We also went to where GM is building, or Factory Zero. We went to GM Factory Zero at Detroit Hamtramck assembly center.
Lei Xing:
And where at the entrance, there was a stop sign. And on the wall, it said “The Revolution Starts Here” with the big Hummer EV picture. I took a picture that said, “stop, the revolution starts here. Then, after that, the Warren Tch Center.
Tu Le:
Stop for a second, I'm so tired like just hearing you talk about what we did, it’s just wall to wall.
Lei Xing:
And also passing the Cadillac global headquarters on Van Dyke Avenue, right? Then meeting your family having nice dinner at a nice Vietnamese restaurant.
Tu Le:
Vietnamese restaurant in Madison Heights.
Lei Xing:
Right, and that was Tuesday. And on Wednesday is when really what this trip was about, right? The Detroit Auto Show and the significance of it being that it's the first time this is held since January 2019.
Tu Le:
Three years.
Lei Xing:
And it's the first time that I’ve been back since January 2018. It's the first time that the show is being held in September, right? Which is…
Tu Le:
Yes, Detroit had decided to move the auto show from January to June, because in the past Lei would come, it would be snow on the ground. So there wasn't a lot of exploring going on by folks coming into Detroit for the auto show. But I think having it in the summer warmer months is a really great opportunity to go and explore like we did. And I think it will still be held in June. But this time and there was a great opportunity for us to do the battery show or for you to do the battery show and the Detroit Auto Show together. But it is a bit of a conflict because the battery show should be something that has kind of its own dedicated time frame.
Lei Xing:
Sure, and then starting off in the morning, the first person we met was Linda Zhang, the chief engineer for the F-150 Lightning.
Tu Le:
We were fan boys because I think she's meaning to us outside of just being an amazing woman, right?
Lei Xing:
Inspirational.
Tu Le:
Being an immigrant and a woman, right? And leading such an important project and product for Ford Motor Company. I’m getting chills just talking about it because she is an example for both of our families. I have two sons, but she's an example for them as well.
Lei Xing:
Sure I have a daughter and I kind of, my background is similar to her, arriving in the U.S. at a very young age.
Tu Le:
Me too.
Lei Xing:
And right now, becoming the chief engineer for the EV version of the bestselling vehicle in the U.S., right?
Tu Le:
Arguably the most iconic or one of the most iconic vehicles.
Lei Xing:
And then what I remember was there was two, so after Linda Zhang, there was the Jeep press conference. There was a Chevrolet press conference. So Carlos Tavares was here. And he spoke to some media afterwards. And now we've heard all the recent announcements, whether it's Jeep, whether it's Dodge, whether it's Chrysler, that they have these in the pipelines, but not yet on the market, but trying to catch up.
Tu Le:
And this is likely perhaps influenced Stellantis’ decision to pull out of China, right? Because they just didn't have the products to fill the capacity of those factories, right?.
Lei Xing:
And now we're going to see these Jeep Willy’s 4Xe, maybe that Wagoneer 4Xe all imported into China, possibly.
Tu Le:
And we should say that a not filled media day was then crammed because of the special guest that afternoon or late morning.
Lei Xing:
So we got kicked out at around 10:30ish, and when we were walking out, we saw GM CEO Mary Barra preparing for that visit.
Tu Le:
And Mark Reuss.
Lei Xing:
Right, Mark Reuss, by POTUS. And we took some selfies, being the nerds that we were. So from about 11 to 3, Tu again being the good host he is took us to Grosse Pointe, and went to this burger joint. And while we were walking to his car on the streets of downtown Detroit. Who did we bump into? We bumped into Alysha Webb, one of the China mafias that we were planning to meet. And then we said, let's go, let's go have burger. We can’t be in the show anyways, let’s take a break.
Tu Le:
So I’ve known Alysha now for over 4 years, had never met her until we bumped into each other with Lei on the streets of Detroit on Wednesday. How funny?
Lei Xing:
Right, and I met her at last year's LA Auto Show, but it was the first time for you meeting her. One thing I did wanted to mention is very early on the first day was the semifinalist announcement for the North American Car & Truck of the Year. And there were, I think, 20 BEVs out of the 26, if I remember the numbers correctly, the semifinalists, 20 were BEVs. And I spoke to Gary Witzenburg, who is the president of the NACTOY, right, and I asked him, when do you expect Chinese brands to be on that list? And he said, if the Chinese, as long as the Chinese get the quality, durability, affordability, performance right, they'll be competitive, and they sure can be a candidate on that semifinal list. If they can be better than everyone else, then they can be a winner. But then he said, that'll take some time. Because first you have to be on the market to be considered into this car of the year list. So that was interesting.
Tu Le:
So I’m going to throw a little caveat on that, because having just come from China, sitting in numerous Chinese electric vehicles, the quality is there, the design is there, the demand is there for sure. If you look at NIO ET5, ET7, that's a beautiful car, whether you're in China, the U.S. , Europe, I think the ET5 going to Europe is going to really really push BMW to really rethink their 3 Series strategy.
Lei Xing:
I feel like ET5, what's going on in China? It's a Model 3 moment. You remember in 2016, how people lined up to pre-order the Model 3?
Tu Le:
Yeah we've seen plenty of those videos in NIO showrooms.
Lei Xing:
I think it's that moment for NIO, so we had the nice lunch at Little Tony's in Grosse Pointe, and then afterwards I think they let us back in after 3 pm so we went back and who did we find? We found the Chinese Ambassador to the U.S. Qin Gang at the Lincoln stand, and he was checking out the two concepts.
Tu Le:
He was there for a good 30 minute, so it wasn't like hi, bye.
Lei Xing:
He was talking to Joy Falotico, who is the president of Global Lincoln. And I waited there for quite awhile and I wanted to speak to him. And I did. And what I told him was I thanked him, in Chinese, I told him thank you for what you're doing to bridge kind of the China U.S. relations. And that is the exact same purpose, I think for China EVs & More is to bridge what's going on in the China EV, AV and mobility space, right, with the rest of the world and kind of educate and kind of clear up some of the mysteries, critique right, on what's going on in China, so that people understand, that's our purpose.
Tu Le:
And right now, it's more important than ever, because of the investment that's going to be happening in the U.S. Because during Biden’s visit, he made that $900 million announcement, 37 state charging infrastructure investment, right? So we're going to see a lot of startups in the charging infrastructure space, the battery cell manufacturing space here in the U.S. because the IRA requires local content and a good amount of it. And so we're going to see a few things: we're going to see the legacy try to find loopholes, we're going to see more investment in refineries. Mining is a little bit tougher, but refineries and manufacturing reshoring, right? And I think we'll still eventually see Chinese EV companies and battery cell manufacturers entering the U.S., probably building factories here, because number one, it's a 17 million unit or 14 million this year, but normally between 15 and 17 million units annual sales volume. So it's worth it to build locally here, right? Because all the Koreans do, all the Japanese do, and the Germans do. You know, BMW builds more cars in the U.S, I believe, than they do in Germany.
Lei Xing:
So sure. And I think, even though there was no OEM or Chinese OEM or EV startup exhibiting, I think nevertheless, China factor is still well at play.
Tu Le:
There is a shadow.
Lei Xing:
We have Autel, which is a Chinese company, charger company based in Guangdong Province, exhibiting, but you wouldn't know it's a Chinese company, right? And then we had RoboSense, the Chinese lidar startup. I think they just turned eight. They're expecting for the first time in Detroit Auto Show, and they will be opening up an office in Plymouth pretty soon.
Tu Le:
I think this was their trial balloon to see what kind of reception, right?
Lei Xing:
Right. And throughout the show more often than not, you will hear people talk about batteries, CATL, these names will come up even though there's no Chinese presence, right? So.
Tu Le:
Because outside of China EVs & More, there's not one consistent news or information channel that I think is very accurate, number one. And number two, that's very up to date. And you and I we talk to our moles on a weekly basis. And so I think that's what's really important, because as fast as the China market moves, the information changes and evolves as well. So I think what you knew last week or last month or last year has definitely changed.
Lei Xing:
And I what I’m telling is this week I've lost kind of lost track of what's going on in China, in a way that's good, because we focus on the events that are going on here. I actually, for a change.
Tu Le:
I've barely had time to sit down and take notes.
Lei Xing:
I like it that way, but once we get back, we'll probably will follow more about what's been happening. But and then later that afternoon, I talked to the Witricity, the wireless charging startup who's actually already has a customer, FAW, in China, and they have pilots in China. And then talking about, we listened in a bit on Governor Whitmer’s reception, talking about Detroit, transportation, mobility, investment, road repair.
So the highlight of the day on Wednesday was the Mustang reveal, one of the highlights, and really like seeing all the different Mustangs, 1,000 owners coming from all over the U.S. converge. This whole convoy converge in Detroit. Right next to GM global headquarters, I think it was a statement.
Tu Le:
And the backdrop of that and Hart Plaza with the GM building right there. And then every 10 minutes, the engine of Mustangs just freaking going down the road. It brought me back to when I was a little kid, like this is so cool.
Lei Xing:
And just looking at those cars walking by, your adrenaline, it gets your adrenaline.
Tu Le:
You feel the history, you feel the history.
Lei Xing:
And then once we get in, Ford CEO Jim Farley is there. What is he doing? He's taking selfies with these enthusiasts, owners.
Tu Le:
That was awesome.
Lei Xing:
And we got a selfie with him.
Tu Le:
Because we are nerds, and we are fanboys.
Lei Xing:
Earlier that day, we tweeted our Linda Zhang photo, and Jim Farley liked it on Twitter. So thank you Jim Farley. So we are just nerds. This event hearing like the employees talk rather than executive, there's nobody from the senior up talked at the event, it was all about the employees, owners, the heritage, the legacy, and then seeing the launch and the easter egg with the Dark Horse performance edition. So that was…
Tu Le:
That was the only in my humble opinion that was the only automotive related media event that was exciting.
Lei Xing:
We might as well call the Detroit Auto Show the Ford Motor Show or the Mustang Motor Show, so that’s how it was.
Tu Le:
It was, Ford, poked a few different people because of that event because to not have a significant presence, if you're one of the other legacies here, and to just see, and we should note that this Stampede started in Tacoma, Washington. All of these Mustangs, not all of them, but many of them started from the West Coast, came to Detroit, and converged on Hart Plaza and the energy and then not only that, but we're also fan boys for the Big Foot. We found those monster trucks.
Lei Xing:
Yeah, I don't know what they were there for, probably unrelated, but they were just there.
Tu Le:
I will say this about the 7th-gen, last ICE Mustang. It was more of an evolution than a revolution, a little bit disappointed. I think the digital and the technology is injected, but the design of the vehicle, it's nice, but I got to say it does favor Camaro a little bit, right?
Lei Xing:
I'll talk about it a little bit later. So that was Wednesday and our feet hurt after a full day of walking around, standing.
Tu Le:
I was trying to be cool wearing my Jordans, so that was kind of dumb…
Lei Xing:
That was Wednesday. And then yesterday, the first thing in the morning was our next guest on our podcast, I believe he is No. 11, is Dr. Jun Pei, the founder and CEO of Cepton.
Tu Le:
Silicon valley-based, Troy office now.
Lei Xing:
San Jose, LiDAR startup, who recently opened up Detroit office in Troy. So he claims they're the LiDAR company with the biggest presence in Detroit and they have a commercial win with GM.
Tu Le:
Huge win.
Lei Xing:
Which will have their LiDARs on the Cadillac Celestiq next year.
Tu Le:
For Ultra Cruise. So really quickly, the one thing that he did emphasize that I think differentiates it as far as marketing material and kind of positioning in the market is that he did say Cepton specializes in ADAS.
Lei Xing:
Safety.
Tu Le:
Yes so I think, I get the impression that other LiDAR companies go straight to Level 4.
Lei Xing:
And he's Chinese American. So one of those stories, finding a company and having the riches here, American Dream, right?
Tu Le:
Sper humble guy.
Lei Xing:
And they're in this what he calls the execution phase at the moment, right?
Tu Le:
Four phases. You have to…
Lei Xing:
Stay tuned, it was an awesome conversation, he was very straight with us. Then I think you had to go somewhere and I went back to the show. And again, these shows, I think sometimes we take it for granted because you think that there's no big reveals. There's not much going on, but when you walk the show, you never know who you bump into. I bumped into Steve Saleen, who those of you in the auto industry knows that Saleen Automotive is a kind of a performance tuning.
Tu Le:
So they specialized specifically in Mustangs early on.
Lei Xing:
Right, and they tried to, not enter, but they tried to set up a manufacturing EV operations..
Tu Le:
With a Chinese joint venture partner that nobody heard of.
Lei Xing:
Right, and that didn't work out, and there's some litigation going on. So he was checking out the Dodge Charger Daytona SRT EV Concept, and I just talked to him, what's up, and he said I’m still in the litigation with this guy. So hopefully maybe we have him on the pod to talk about.
Tu Le:
So for those that want to understand Saleen, they were a tuner for Ford Mustangs and then they created the S7, which is one of the meanest sports cars for a long period of time. The Chinese partner, Saleen had opened a retail store in Parkview Green in Beijing. I sent a picture to Lei and then before a blink of an eye that retail store closed.
Lei Xing:
And they had tried to launch something. They held that huge event in Bird’s Nest in 2019. They had tried to launch something similar to the Wuling Hongguang MINIEV that didn't get anywhere and that was such a departure from the sports, performance sports car that they were trying to launch. That was just something so weird and nothing came out of it. But anyways, then I checked out Magna. So Magna they showed some innovations on lighting and exterior closures, and also the investment into Yulu, Cartken, this micro mobility, last mile. And I bumped into Jim Tobin, who was a VP, he's retired. He was responsible for Asia, whom I last met in 2017 in Shanghai along with Don Walker, former CEO of Magna, when they launched the joint venture with HASCO on the e-axle business supplying the MEB for SAIC-Volkswagen, and the first question he asked me was, what do you think about ARCFOX? For those of you who don't know, Magna is sort of the CM, joint venture partner, they have a facility in Zhenjiang, Jiangsu Province, producing the ARCFOX.
Tu Le:
And they stake the reputation there.
Lei Xing:
The Alpha S and the Alpha T. And I told exactly the first thing I think of to Jim was Magna’s reputation is at stake here and then second, I don't doubt the quality of the vehicles, but the problem is ARCFOX is having some headwinds, that's just put it at that. So it was good to talk to him and he remembers me.
Tu Le:
That's not to say anything about ARCFOX the company. It's just a brutal competition in China and they're just not getting it any traction right and so that's just a car company that's not really being able to carve out that positioning, resonate with consumers. There is no quality issues that I’ve heard of or anything from a manufacturing standpoint, it’s just that ARCFOX is just not that glamorous of a brand.
Lei Xing:
Right, and then last night we listened to the pitch competition from Plug & Play.
Tu le:
I have to remember what you're telling me, all this stuff, because so many things is that it all bleeds together.
Lei Xing:
That's why I did this the script right beforehand. It took me 10 minutes, just kind of recapping what's been going on and it’s been a full week. Last night after that, I had a nice dinner at the Slows BBQ in Corkdown with my college buddy, who's working at Ford, who has been working at Ford for 22 years. And what is he doing? He is in engineering for EVs. He's in the Model E division or the team, and nice dinner, and he'll be my mole for Ford. This morning, right before this, we had talked to Mujeeb Ijaz, the founder and CEO of Our Next Energy or ONE, who is doing that battery that we talked about in the beginning.
Tu Le:
That guy is a rock star. It was cool because we got to visit their brand new facility that they just recently opened. It's their world headquarters. And he gave us a product roadmap review. He was super transparent. We'll share some of that stuff later, but he gave us more than 2 hours of his time. And he was so open and kind. So thanks so much to Mujeeb and team and that nice gift.
Lei Xing:
We got that nice book on the 100 years of EV history, and that's it, and this is where we are now.
Tu Le:
That’s it? What else can I do?
Lei Xing:
And this is where we are now at this TechTown Detroit. Thank you again for hosting us using the facility here and we're saving the best for last, which is the Charity Preview tonight. Hopefully we'll meet up with Jim again, Jim Farley, and Mary, Tavares, who knows, hopefully they're still there. And this is one of the best experiences I've had in a long time, right? Because the pandemic and meeting people, talking to people, reminiscing, reconnecting, recollecting. And the number of people that we met that we've known from before but haven’t met in a long time, that's the value of these events that we…
Tu Le:
Digital old friends have become physical old friends now.
Lei Xing:
And meeting you for the first time after 18 months of doing this.
Tu Le:
And we still get along right? Like the physical meeting is like nothing was really different. You know I did want to mention about the Pitch contest, I thought it was really well run by Plug & Play. There were 13 startups, 10 judges, mostly corporate judges. And so it was good. And I think what I hope to see because TechTown, Plug & Play and Newlab are all trying to recruit startups to come, the mobility startups specifically, to come to Detroit and grow their businesses or find customers. And so I think for anyone in that space that was wondering whether or not Detroit is open for business, there's no doubt post-Biden Administration, post Biden visit that the U.S. is leaning into Detroit, other parts, Silicon Valley to really become a mobility center, right?
Lei Xing:
Yeah and speaking, the China factors, so we know so that some of the Chinese companies that they are here, RoboSense being one, Autel being one. And depending on the IRA, we discussed with many different acquaintances, what's happening with BYD, what's happening with CATL, those are imminent. But I think there's also some question marks, but…
Tu Le:
There's no guarantee they'll be successful.
Lei Xing:
But I think it's still a matter of time. Geely was in Detroit in 2006. It's been 16 years going on 17 that the Chinese are coming. They're still coming, not here full on yet, but they'll be here at some point, in time.
Tu Le:
Like you said, the NACTOY, right? I don't think, there might have been one last year for the car of the year semifinalist, now there's 26. So once that starts happening, then you'll start seeing more attempts at entering the market, right? And we know the China automotive space. The strength is in the EV companies. It's not in the ICE companies, right?
Lei Xing:
And they're coming in different ways as attested to NIO ES8 being in Detroit through Mobileye. We haven't spotted one yet. We try to you how, tried to see if we can get a ride. But unfortunately.
Tu Le:
I will keep on working at trying to get us a ride. I tweeted it out. NIO entered the U.S. through the backdoor using Mobileye. And so hell or highway, they're coming, right? There's no doubt. But there's certain tensions, certain changes in diplomacy that need to be addressed that I don't think we're there just 6 or 8 months.
Lei Xing:
Ambassador Qin Gang said in that Bloomberg commercial (article) aout the decoupling. But that's the same thing is kind of going on, I think, in China as well, which is unfortunate and hopefully that'll change. But I think anyway you look at it, there's no stopping the Chinese from coming.
Tu Le:
So that's the weird thing, right? Because the foreign legacies in China are they're finding that their products aren't resonating as much as in the past, number one. Number two, I think they're finding the business climate a little more challenging than in the past or because of the reduced sales, maybe they're a bit more vocal about it. Whereas when Volkswagen was selling 4 million cars that were willing to take a bit of what was going on from a government standpoint. But now that they are shrinking share, maybe they're going to raise their hand a bit more and be more vocal. And this is where to be quite frank, the Chinese government might do a disservice to some of these Chinese EV companies, because if they enter the U.S., it could become really challenging because of what the Chinese government is doing in China. So what's been clear to me about this week and moving forward is that the U.S. has really, really lit that first match to try to bring the sector up.
Lei Xing:
The dinosaurs being displayed in the hallways is kind of testament to, maybe is that signaling the end of an era and beginning of a new era, maybe, right? It's that's how I look at it, right?
Tu Le:
So the F-150 becoming electric. That was the first thing.
Lei Xing:
The Mustang, the last generation Ice, right, it's an end. It's a new, it's a beginning of an end, the Charger being electrified. Then there were some the concepts that the Lincolns, the Buick concept, the Dodge, the Hummer EV, Cadillac LYRIQ, right? So I think U.S. is entering that phase. But maybe I don't know, a decade later than China, sort of.
Tu Le:
We shouldn't ever talk about sales volume comparisons because China’s the largest market so that's never going to work out, but the excitement is starting to build here. The products are starting to really increase substantially. The Blazer, remember the $30,000 Blazer.
Lei Xing:
The $30,000 Equinox.
Tu Le:
Sorry, the $30,000 equinox, the $40,000 Blazer. So Chevrolet, we forgot because we went to that media event for Chevrolet and they talked about EV at every price point, right? So that's all I had today.
Lei Xing:
I think for I was saying for auto shows, there weren't big reveals, one of the trends is because may be brought by the pandemic that it was more effective doing one-off events in different ways, rather than trying to compete with different press conferences. And I think that's going to continue to happen for these launches.
Tu Le:
And so I don't know what the future is for the Detroit Auto Show. Will be in LA in November.
Lei Xing:
I think in the U.S. these events such as the Pebble Beach, the Quail, LA Auto Show, CES are the probably events that, the go to events, but still for me, don't take things for granted. As I said, Detroit Auto Show was just nice to learn, nice experience, nice to talk to people.
Tu Le:
I really enjoyed this week. I've neglected a few different things, but I think it's worth that.
But Lei, let me tell you that awesome to finally meet you. I think we've been working really hard at this podcast for the last 18 months, so I think we deserve that. Hopefully we'll continue to provide new kind of content like this, but also be your best source of information for still what's going on in China. And how it affects the rest of the world.
Lei Xing:
Sure, and I guess next week we will be back to our regularly scheduled programming time. Thursday evening on Twitter Spaces.
Tu Le:
Yes. Live show. If there are any questions from this podcast, you can ask us next week we'll be live. And good morning, good afternoon, and good evening.
Lei Xing:
Same here, we will talk to you next time.
Tu Le:
That brings us to the end of this week show. Lei and I thank you for tuning in. My name is Tu Le and you can find me on twitter @sinoautoinsight. You can find Lei on twitter @leixing77. If you wouldn't mind rating and or reviewing us on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you grab your podcast from, we'd appreciate that as well. Even better if you enjoy this show, please tell your friends about it. Please join this again next week as we track down all the latest news on China EVs & More.