Tu and Lei begin with briefly discussing their latest MAX episode with Gansha Wu, Founder & CEO of UISEE - an autonomous driving startup based in China.
Tu and Lei then transition over into a detailed discussion about Tesla’s earnings and the role that the China market plays in their earnings and operations and how most analysts miss how important the China market is to everything that Tesla does.
Lei then changes gears into a discussion about the recently unveiled Porsche Macan EV that still doesn’t have pricing for the China market announced. Tu gets into the recent challenges that Porsche had in the China market and how this could really be a catalyst for the resumption of growth in the China market for Porsche, but it’s going to have stiff competition now.
Tu and Lei close the show on the announcement that DJI will have, none other than BYD, as an investor and partner for their ADAS systems which should help make ADAS a common feature in mass market vehicles in China sooner rather later.
Tu and Lei begin with briefly discussing their latest MAX episode with Gansha Wu, Founder & CEO of UISEE - an autonomous driving startup based in China.
Tu and Lei then transition over into a detailed discussion about Tesla’s earnings and the role that the China market plays in their earnings and operations and how most analysts miss how important the China market is to everything that Tesla does.
Lei then changes gears into a discussion about the recently unveiled Porsche Macan EV that still doesn’t have pricing for the China market announced. Tu gets into the recent challenges that Porsche had in the China market and how this could really be a catalyst for the resumption of growth in the China market for Porsche, but it’s going to have stiff competition now.
Tu and Lei close the show on the announcement that DJI will have, none other than BYD, as an investor and partner for their ADAS systems which should help make ADAS a common feature in mass market vehicles in China sooner rather later.
CEM #151 Transcript
Recorded 1/26/24
Tu Le:
Hi everyone and welcome to China EVs & More where my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week’s most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV and mobility space. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome. And to our loyal listeners, welcome back. We ask that you please help us get the word out about this podcast to other enthusiasts and of course tune in again next week.
My name is Tu Le. I am the managing director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech-focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at sinoautoinsights.com which I encourage you all to do. Lei, a booked one way to Beijing Lei. Can you please introduce yourself? And Lei, maybe you can take a few minutes at the very beginning to talk about the newest MAX episode with Gansha Wu.
Lei Xing:
Sure, good morning, yes, locked and loaded, I guess. Lei Xing, your co-host, former chief editor of China Auto Review, and this is episode #151. Yes, housekeeping. We just published the latest max episode with Gansha Wu, the founder and CEO of UISEE, an autonomous driving startup that is coming up on, 2016, so they are 8 years old next month. And lots of insights.
Tu Le:
But we should make a distinction between autonomous driving and autonomous vehicle. Because there are vehicle, autonomous vehicle companies that are doing the entire stack, in addition to the vehicle. And there are companies like an Aurora in the United States that are really just providing the stack. And we'll use it in a lot of different use cases, whether that's commercial trucking, logistics and port vehicles, but please continue.
Lei Xing:
Yeah, so make sure to listen to that MAX episode. And I mean, he knows his stuff. I mean not only in China, but globally. And he was the former head of Intel Labs China, and kind of decided to start this company, I think back in 2015. I knew him from the, the personal story is that our respective daughters went to the same kindergarten, how we got to know each other, so a small world. So this week, the title says legaices strike back, I think it's perfect because the EV startups have been kind of quiet this week, wouldn't you say? So the Tesla earnings, Porsche Macan, the second generation all-electric Macan launched, there is other stuff going on, come out of China, BMW the new 5 and i5, Volkswagen Group China, commenting on their future prospects in China as they welcome their 40 years in China this year. Where do you want to start?
Tu Le:
Well let's start with, cause I agree, in China, it takes an awful lot now to bubble up to the top with regards to being the headline for the week, because there's so much continuous news coming out. And I have talked about it in the past. It's really actually challenging to keep up. But you and I are able to kind of pull out what we think are kind of the important nuggets, but maybe we start with the Tesla earnings. What did you think? How does China play into, because he said that 20, this will be a valley between two hills from a growth standpoint. So anything surprise you? What takeaways did you have from the earnings? And he had made this one comment that made it onto the social media verse that I think.
Lei Xing:
And we'll talk about it.
Tu Le:
You and I, I mean it's the primary reason I started the newsletter.
Lei Xing:
Okay, and it's what we've been driving on the show often, right?
Tu Le:
Cause this is the reason I pulled you in for the podcast because I was like okay, together we can probably create an awareness, right? So.
Lei Xing:
You know, the street is the street, right? If you don't, it's a very short sighted, I guess how Wall Street reacts to certain things and anytime you show signs of slow growth or not growth at all, then I think Tesla their shares, I think in recent memory tanked quite a lot. I don't remember the last time it went down that much in a single day.
Tu Le:
9%.
Lei Xing:
Yeah, then you kind of compare with NIO, right? NIO has been a stock that's often been, I mean it's, I guess mediocre would be a complement to say how NIO has been doing, which basically says, if there's no signs of growth, then you're either stuck or you are put in reverse. I mean that's number one and two, is with respect to China, this $25,000 or next-gen platform vehicle versus his comment. That China, I think let me repeat that comment, right, so quote unquote, “Chinese car companies are the most competitive companies in the world. They will have significant success outside of China depending on what kind of tariffs or trade barriers are established. If there are no trade barriers established, they will pretty much demolish most other car companies in the world. Unquote. Now, most other car companies in the world, that's the key word right there. And Elon is not pointing to himself, but in fact, Tesla is not immune. So when you combine that, what he shared at the $25,000 vehicle or the next-gen vehicle starting off in Austin, Mexico, in a third location to be announced, but not anything specific about this vehicle being produced in Shanghai. That's interesting. Right?
Tu Le:
It is. But that is in contradiction to the Reuters report about them talking to their Chinese supply base to prep for…
Lei Xing:
Right, 20% growth, right? Is that the one you're referring to, the supply?
Tu Le:
No, Reuters talked about Tesla telling their suppliers to be ready for a new vehicle launched by summer of 2025.
Lei Xing:
2025. Right.
Tu Le:
So that corresponds to the timing that they announced, or that he talked about with the Austin launch of the Model 2, right? So.
Lei Xing:
There was also another report decided that they asked the battery suppliers or given them a 20% increase guidance for 2024. Now, 20%, absolutely, relatively, you look at it, is no longer the 50% that they've been growing, but 20% seems small, right? Compared to the last few years. So I think this is the lull we were expecting in between those peaks, if you will, or potential peaks. And that's the fact, right? That's because the fact the matter is, they don't have any new cars. They are, granted.
Tu Le:
For the entire year, for the entire year. Really quickly. So they need to tour Cybertruck around China in order to get attention.
Lei Xing:
It's starting to, yeah.
Tu Le:
This is where there's a lot for me to unpack, but I do want you. Maybe the two of us can explain why it might be difficult for Cybertruck to be sold in China, because I see that there are a lot of stans that don't understand China at all and they're like they're gonna sell it, and it's like, okay, you guys obviously don't understand the dynamics of large trucks in the China market, because if Ford could sell the F150 in the China market, they would.
Lei Xing:
And they are.
Tu Le:
So. Yeah. But let's talk about why it's very limited.
Lei Xing:
First of all, because of part of it is regulations. So the size of the vehicle is, depending on the size of the vehicle, and where you can operate there are specific rules on, let's say, pickup kind of the pickup trucks. It's, you know China has these numbering system for vehicle classification, right? So seven is a kind of a car and 6 kind of a SUV or van. I think for the size of the Cybertruck, first of all, because it's a truck, it's probably not going to be allowed on certain roads. I think that's simplifying the regulatory part of it.
Tu Le:
Exactly. So it's not that simple to be like, I'm going to enter China with the Cybertruck. I'm going to sell a bunch of them. Laws need to change or be amended. And effectively, if you're from California, you can't drive the Cybertruck on the 101, would you buy it? Because in Beijing and Shanghai, the Gaosu Gonglu, the highways you cannot drive these trucks, you cannot drive the F150, you cannot drive the Silverado. So if you're in Detroit and you can't drive the vehicle, the Cybertruck on I-75, would you buy it? The size of the engine makes it a premium purchase, all these things come into play. So they're super expensive, but you're right. You still see Raptors here and there in Beijing, Shanghai, some of the other cities. So there are F150s in China, but it's not as clean and easy as I'm going to enter the market with this vehicle and I'm going to sell a bunch of them.
Lei Xing:
You can sort of see, I think they also in the earnings call talked about, I think I mean it was actually Tom Zhu mentioned a little bit about the sales and marketing side of things, what Tesla has been trying to do with a digital marketing. And this in China on the heels of Franz visiting and then the Cybertruck coming. I tweeted that this is Zao Shi, which means, I don't know.
Tu Le:
Yeah I saw that.
Lei Xing:
Yeah you understand what it means, right? The English word would be making it more exciting, have a show to kind of draw interest and traffic, I guess. Even though it's not going to be sold, at least not officially, or ever.
Tu Le:
Let's peel layers of that onion back a little bit and I'll press rewind because he said that this is, growth is slowing. Their energy storage growth is likely going to be higher than their vehicle sales growth. Vehicle sales growth last year was 38% year-over-year, 22 to 23. And one of the reasons that we should point to that no one has really talked about is that, so they went from 1.3 to 1.8, huge accomplishment. 50% of their production came out of China. So I think that needs to be noted, number one. Number two, how many price cuts did they have in China in order to get to the 1.8 million? With Elon and his earnings call saying growth is slowing, that is acknowledgement that the price cuts aren't going to be as effective as they were in 2023. And that also means the 3 and the Y are a year older without major revisions.
Lei Xing:
I was trying to say granted that they sold 1.2 million Model Ys globally, still an amazing accomplishment, but at what expense, right? I think that's your point. And there's been, I guess, recent reports of the new Model 3 haven't been on that positive, maybe. So this year I mean pretty much, it's a downer, I guess, psychologically wise, no new products. Cybertruck will help a little bit in the U.S., but volume wise, right?
Tu Le:
Well, it would if they could manufacture them in mass quantities, which they can’t.
Lei Xing:
And then the 1.8 to 2 million I mean that sounds slow, right? Compared to years before.
Tu Le:
Yeah, it doesn't get them that close, that much closer to that 20 million. That's for sure.
Lei Xing:
So the thing is, so despite I think their net income was $15 billion for the year, like all time high, but at the same time, so their cost of sales are going down. But I think a lot of it may be due to the, I don't know, battery cell, lithium prices maybe, at the same time, they're dropping prices. So most recently in China, right? So gross margins, they'll take a hit. So I mean no new products kind of stuck this year sort of.
Tu Le:
But let me ask you Lei, even with the number of products, let's say the Model 2 comes out in the middle of 2025. And the price war has substantially dialed down. Do you see the Model 2 being a major hit? Because Shanghai Giga will have likely increased capacity to almost 2 million units from the 1.2 or whatever it's currently at. So I was reading a research report that said that generally speaking, a factory needs to be at a utilization rate of around 80% in order to be profitable. If we're looking at 2 million units, they need to be turning out about 1.6, 1.7 million out of that factory. And so that would mean in year two, we would need to see close to 700,000, 800,000 Model 2s, whether they're domestically consumed or domestically and exported. Let's not even get into that, but do you see the Model 2 being a smash hit?
Lei Xing:
Well, here is what he said in the earnings call. He said second half or by the end of 2025, right? So really, we have still two full years before this thing can get into mass quality. Let's say starting 2026 is the year actually, based on his schedule that this thing will ramp to significant volumes. And by then, how many, I wonder you know the equivalent Model 2/Qs will be on the market in China. But outside of China, let's say North America, to this day, there's no competition to Tesla. Still, we don't see any clear competitor emerging. So I think this for them will be more significant outside of China than in China.
Tu Le:
Agreed. And I think we should also kind of talk to the fact that Tesla with some of their announcements haven't been really on time, 4680, Cybertruck. And so when he said that they're looking at mid-2025 launch, a lot of people push back on that. And so which is valid. But my assumption is, and I just take people at their word. If 2025 comes and goes no Model 2, then we deal with that, but he said launch mid-2025. And I look at it this way: that means that they'll have mastered or at least they believe that they have mastered the single Giga casting for front and rear. If we're thinking about it from a manufacturing standpoint, I was looking and that effectively takes 400 parts out of a vehicle. It takes a lot of welding out of the assembly plant. And so if you're doing it times two now, oh man, can you imagine legacy automakers how far behind they would be? Because there was, I tweeted about if this thing launches in 2025, the legacy automakers are going to have that oh shit moment where it just hits the fan. And then I got some push back saying, oh Renault is coming out with this, and this company is coming out with that. And I look at it like, you don't get it. First of all, how will their software be? Number two, we've seen GM trip all over itself and not able to build batteries for the Ultium platform. This assumption that all the legacies by 2025 and 2026 are going to have these affordable cars. First of all, they're not gonna be profitable. Second of all, there's no guarantees that they launch on time or in quantities that could compete. So that's where I'm going to believe Tesla more than the legacy automakers about their launch schedules. Okay, I don't know what you think about that, but would love to hear your thoughts.
Lei Xing:
Like I said, Tesla right now is kind of put on neutral a little bit, but at the same time, the legacies are cutting back. And before, it was Tesla speed ahead, full speed ahead and legacy is trying to catch up, right? At the end, it's the same.
Tu Le:
I know. I don't know what would make, to me, it's a bit naive to think that all that takes is 5 years or 4 years or whatever. Legacy automaker decides we're going to build the electric vehicles and we're going to be really good at it in this short period of time, and be able to compete with Tesla before 2030 ends. That's complete BS, it's complete BS, and it tells me that you have a elementary understanding of vehicle manufacturing, engineering and software development. Let's, full stop, software development. So.
Lei Xing:
Yeah I feel like his comments on China really was behind it, is also mentioning Austin, Mexico and a third location, almost feels like he knows kind of the China risk, although he's always positive on China. And I think we're starting to see that they're trying to hedge that risk.
Tu Le:
Yeah, but we talked about that, or I talked about that with India. And so I think that because and it's not even governmental risk. It's more about macro economy risk. Because if Tesla is saying the China market is weakening, or the China economy is a bit weak, and that's effectively what he said. Could you imagine the scrambling that the companies in the second-tier are doing to try to find where those sales are going to come from in 2024. If they're not coming from China, where are they going to come from? So because if they don't come from somebody else, everybody, including Tesla with the exception of only likely BYD is going to take a huge step back. That's the nature of the automotive business because you spend $1 billion to increase capacity, but you're at the whim of an economy, you're at the whim of competition. There's no flexibility in that. Now, if you're a contract manufacturer, I mean if you're contract manufacturing, there's a little bit of flexibility there, but you don't take full advantage of the scale. So there's pros and cons to both strategies. But, hey, let’s, unless you have anything else with the Tesla. You want to move on to Macan?
Lei Xing:
What do you think?
Tu Le:
I've always liked the Macan. I think interior wise, it's too small. I have a few of my German and European friends on WeChat, and we're in a car group. They're like, man, what do you guys think of the Tiguan Plus? Cause it's on the, I do like it. I think that I don't know, man. It's 80 grand starting in the United States. So what do you think it's going to start at in China?
Lei Xing:
Well, I said last time RMB600,000-RMB800,000 is probably the price range just a little bit below the Taycan which is over RMB1 million.
Tu Le:
I know, I love Porsche. I wish I had about five of them in my garage. I wish I had a 356. I wish I had a 911 Targa. And Abe, if you can help me make that happen, please do what you can. But anyways, let me point this out. I've gotten push back on the fact that I think that the Macan still might struggle depending on price. People are like, Porsche’s the brand, blah, blah, blah. They sell on brand. Dude, they lost 15% sales in China. If the brand is so strong, how did they lose 15%? Don't, what can you point to? So this is the thing that is where I’m like, you know what, brand is one thing, but there is enough competition in China that even, cause even mighty Apple loses market share, right? Porsche and Apple, two of the strongest brands in the world.
Lei Xing:
Personally, styling wise, I really like how they changed the front of the design. But the rear is a little bit, I guess, Mercedesy, because of the round butt, or the rear of the vehicle is not as pointy as before. But other than that, I think from a volume perspective, so 800,000 in its lifetime over the last 10 years versus Taycan did 140,000 the last 4 years. So I guess my expectation for this would be to at least double what Taycan did over a 4 year period. But this will only start to have significant volumes next year. And Porsche has the Road to 20 program, which they want to have return on sales of 20%. So they're going to balance, I mean, like, the total volume wise, they are at 330,000. How much further can they go? China being a kind of a right below 100,000-unit market? I think that they'll have to balance.
Tu Le:
So what's important here Lei is probably thinking about Porsche and for round numbers, rounding it out. A third U.S., a third China, a third Europe, I think it's kind of and I'm over generalizing, but think of it that way, right?
Lei Xing:
And the thing to watch this year is really what happens if Porsche rebounds or continue to fall? Was it a fluke? Was it an anomaly last year? You know, what, right?
Tu Le:
I want to see Lotus sales. I want to see Polestar sales.
Lei Xing:
And theoretically Macan is, is they are like, with the Cayenne have been shoulder to shoulder.
Tu Le:
They are high runners.
Lei Xing:
Their top seller worldwide.
Tu Le:
They're high runners.
Lei Xing:
Yeah high runners. So you would expect that this should gain much more volume or perform much better than what the Taycan did. But part of it is also, again going to that, what they stressed was this, the cockpit, the next generation user, that part of it needs to work, because Taycan I think they had some issues.
Tu Le:
Yeah and that goes back to my whole point about all of a sudden you're on a new platform, people now think that it’s automatically just going to work perfectly. It’s not.
Lei Xing:
Yeah so CARIAD, right, did some things for, to support the development, right? I think charging, voice assistant, some other stuff whether that'll work well. And that's part of the reason why it was delayed in the first place is because of the software.
Tu Le:
And let me be clear, man, I'm not saying that sales are gonna fall off a cliff, but if sales are okay, then you can't call it a slam dunk success. Because I want to point back to your saying that these are their high runners that drives the 350,000-unit volume for Porsche globally.
Lei Xing:
Yeah last year Macan was 27% of sales. Cayenne was a little bit higher, two models, more than half of their sales, right?
Tu Le:
Because the Porsche 911 sells 1,000, couple thousand or something like that. So very exclusive. If we look at Lamborghini, Aston, their sales have increased, the premium ultra luxury companies, their sales double triple because of the SUVs. So this is an, it's important to remember that Porsche has had no real competition because it's a premium sports brand, right?
Lei Xing:
But for me, if I put on a consumer hat, if I had the money, I will compare this to the Eletre and the Polestar 3 or 4. I definitely would get a Porsche, I get a Macan. That's just from my personal kind of the branding perspective.
Tu Le:
I guess where my entire argument lies is that 5 years ago, that was the only real choice. And you are happily, if you could afford it, going to purchase that vehicle. Now there are other choices. And so even if they lose one out of five, one out of six, that's still hitting their money maker. So that's what I mean by if sales are okay. If they got ten out of ten sales, but now they're getting eight out of ten sales or seven out of ten sales which I could see. If you combine Volvo, Polestar, Lotus, those SUVs, I could see them taking two or three sales out of 10 from Porsche. So three out of 10, that's almost 1/3 of sales, right? So I think this is where we should really really pay very close attention because what the Lotus vehicle, the Polestar vehicle, the EX90, they're great cars. Porsche carries the brand for sure. But I think unless it's a slam dunk, they're still gonna have significant challenges in China.
Lei Xing:
So just expecting it to do much better than the Taycan.
Tu Le:
Man, we talked about two companies and it's 9:37. So why don't you, you had sent me something about Volkswagen Group? Can you talk about that a little bit?
Lei Xing:
I mean on the same day that the Macan launched, Porsche’s parent company Volkswagen Group held a media briefing for China, Volkswagen Group China, where one of the things that came out of it was Ralf Brandstatter, the CEO of VGC, predicting that NEVs will account for 75% of sales in China by 2030. And then this year marks the 40th anniversary of Volkswagen Group entering China. So 1984 is when the Shanghai Volkswagen kind of started production. Basically, they just talked about their strategy and on the product side, big numbers, 30 BEVs and 2030, BEVs by 2030, and then I think it was 30 additional ICEs/PHEVs by 2027.
Tu Le:
Man, I laughed my ass off when you're like, dude, at least have them hit the rim.
Lei Xing:
So in that, I know like, come on, it can’t be an air ball, right? No, what I'm saying is going back to the legacies strike back title that you put up, lacking headlines from the startups. You kind of feel like, ok, we hear the Porsches, Volkswagen Group. They're kind of reseting. They have their strategy in place, they have their partners in place. They have their products, they have their partnerships, with the local Chinese, China EV, AV, tech Inc. multiple…
Tu Le:
And one in particular, we will talk about last.
Lei Xing:
And I think one of the interesting thing in that document I shared was they talked about we’ll continue to have the ICEs to support the development or the investment of ICVs. I think to them, I think that the ICE part of it is still significant, volume wise or profitability wise for some time to come. And you had tweeted right…
Tu Le:
It has to be, it's not optional. It has to be.
Lei Xing:
And you had tweeted that what happens if it's 75% NEV market, right? What do they do? And how much of that are the legacies going to get?
Tu Le:
So if you're wondering why Lei and I are laughing is because, because there was a tweet from Volkswagen Group or from you about celebrating 40 years in China. And them saying they're gonna have 40 products. Was it 40 by 2030.
Lei Xing:
30 BEVs, cumulative, by 2030.
Tu Le:
So I quote tweeted late in the 4th quarter down big, full court press. I posted to GIF of a guy on at the free throw line, bricking a free throw shot. I know I was referencing defense, and but I looked at the GIFs and I was like this is the most appropriate one. And Lei tweeted that you got to at least have them hit the rim. So I just laughed my butt off, but yeah, the last thing Lei that I will bring up that I think should get some significant, more significant than it has is the DJI partnership with BYD because if BYD is able to get Level 2+ ADAS in the Seagull in the Dolphin, in the Atto 3, Yuan Plus at under RMB200,000, oh my god, it's going to be game over for a lot of mass market products. Now brands might survive, but mass market products maybe not.
Lei Xing:
I'll just say this, any companies that come out of Shenzhen, you better respect. And there's three of them, at least three of them, BYD, DJI, RoboSense And there's a bunch of others, right? I think it's not surprising that they are, these BYD and DJI are in fact working. And what they showed with the Yang Wang…
Tu Le:
Let me stop you there. For our listeners who don't know who DJI is. They are the 800-pound gorilla in drones, personal drones. I don't know what you would even call it, personal drones and then commercial drones. They also get into media where they have gimbal, and they have audio and video equipment.
Lei Xing:
We are their customers.
Tu Le:
I believe their products are on a par from an innovation quality standpoint as anyone's technology. And I think they have like 70% market share of the drone market. So they are a major player. And like you said, based out of Shenzhen, I think most of the listeners will know who DJI is, obviously. But if you didn't, that's who they are.
Lei Xing:
And if you look at the products that these KOLs, YouTubers use, more often than not, are probably DJI products, right, the gimbals.
Tu Le:
If you look at the gimbals, the Ronin series are DJI gambles. You and I have microphones for the wireless microphones, you and I have them. I have the Pocket II. They make a GoPro type of video, and they're always bringing innovation and lowering price points for their products. So.
Lei Xing:
Yeah, I think this is DJI focused on the current kind of the cost effective, affordable solutions for not so much advanced ADAS, but the most commonly competitive used automated driving features. They have a new division, I think, or new unit specifically for automotive.
Tu Le:
Looks like they're going to spin it out, because there’s the Technode article. So for those and it'll be on my newsletter which I was delayed in sending out this week. So my apologies. But FAW and BYD look like they're going to be investing in the automotive division of DJI. I think it's important to note in the article, it states that TI is going to be the SoC provider versus NIO and all these other companies are using NVIDIA Orin. And so that lowers the cost of the entire hardware software stack. And remember that DJI are the freaking beasts for drones and their entire product portfolio is filled with sensors and data.
Lei Xing:
That’s the thing. At the end of the day, what are drones, they are sensors, right?
Tu Le:
But we do acknowledge that flying in the air when there's nothing else is versus driving in a busy Shenzhen street are different level. We understand that, but we're only looking at Level 2+. And BYD is able to stuff that in to their current crop of products and keep the price point under $30,000. It's gonna be impossible for many automakers to come close to that. And man, I think that this year, Lei, if not last year, this year is going to be, where did BYD, a lot of western people, where did BYD come from, right? That's where you and I should pat ourselves in the back a little bit again with Elon’s statement about these guys would demolish most car companies. Man, I've been talking about that for 5, 6 years as an American who lived in Silicon Valley when Tesla launched and saw these crappy kit cars, the Tesla Roadster, the original Tesla Roadster, who worked at GM, who worked at Ford, who worked at Lear. So I know the culture, sister and brother in law both retired from General Motors. So.
Lei Xing:
You can relate. You can relate.
Tu Le:
You can't tell me that I don't know the automotive sector. And because I know the automotive sector, I'm fearful of the legacy automaker, I'm fearful for the legacy automaker.
Lei Xing:
So the only other thing I mentioned is we're less than 3 months from Auto China 2024.
Tu Le:
Yes, sir.
Lei Xing:
And that's the first time in 4 years, cause 2022, it never happened. So, yeah.
Tu Le:
That's right.
Lei Xing:
And 2020 was delayed to September because of the pandemic. So.
Tu Le:
I think it's also notable that you tweeted, COVID was 4 years old now in China.
Lei Xing:
And then the Geneva Motor Show, which is coming up in one month exactly. The BYD and MG are going to be the big China EV presence, I guess.
Tu Le:
Unless there are any other questions or comments, we can close the room up.
Lei Xing:
Yeah I need to go. So.
Tu Le:
Everyone, thanks for joining. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you all next week.
Lei Xing:
Likewise, we'll talk to you in February. Bye bye.
Tu Le:
That brings us to the end of this week show. Lei and I thank you for tuning in. My name is Tu Le and you can find me on twitter @sinoautoinsight. You can find Lei on twitter @leixing77. If you wouldn't mind rating and or reviewing us on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you grab your podcast from, we'd appreciate that as well. Even better if you enjoy this show, please tell your friends about it. Please join this again next week as we track down all the latest news on China EVs & More.