Episode #204 - Bring Your Dollars – BYD, Tariffs, and the Global EV Shakeup

In this week’s episode of China EVs & More, Tu Le and Lei Xing dive deep into two massive stories shaping the global auto industry: tariffs and BYD’s dominance. 🇨🇳🚗💥

Topics covered:

• The impact of new U.S. tariffs on EVs and parts, and what it means for Tesla, the Big 3, and global supply chains

• BYD’s explosive growth: from 500K to over 5 million units, and eyeing 10M by 2030

• The launch of the Yangwang U7 – a 1,300 hp luxury EV aiming squarely at the EQS and i7

• Why Germany and Japan may be the biggest losers in the evolving EV landscape

• BYD’s export strategy and vertical integration masterclass

• Can Denza, Fang Cheng Bao, and Yangwang go premium inside and outside China?

• Plus: NIO’s financial pressures, Xiaomi SU7’s rise, and the EV arms race heating up globally

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📬 Sign up for Tu Le’s free newsletter: sinoautoinsights.substack.com

#BYD #Tariffs #Tesla #EVs #ChinaAuto #YangwangU7 #AutoIndustry #NIO #XiaomiSU7 #Mobility

Transcript

Tu Le 

Welcome to the China EVs and More podcast. In the next hour or so, my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news.

coming out of the global EV, AV and mobility sectors. What Lei and I discussed today is based on our opinions, it should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome. And to our loyal listeners, welcome back. We ask that you smash that subscribe and like button so that you don't miss anything from us in the future. I'm confident that Lei and I are two of the most knowledgeable people in the world doing this, so help us get the word out. About this show to others, my name is Tu Le

I'm the Managing Director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech-focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at sinoautoinsights.substack.com, which of course I encourage you all to do. Apologies, Lei. I know you've been waiting patiently. Can you please introduce yourself?

Lei Xing 

Yeah, good morning to a technically challenged two. This is your co-host, Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. And this is episode number 204. Bring your dollars is the theme of this episode. Tariffs and BYD again. Those are the two most...

Tu Le 

Challenged.

Lei Xing 

the biggest topics that they were thinking of.

BYD has been in the news almost constantly. And now the tariffs, I think, what's the way to describe it? Do we put the nail on the coffin that this is gonna stay for the long haul? And this is where the baseline that the global auto industry is confronting at least for the next four years. So we start off from there.

Let's talk about tariffs first.

So the 25%, Trump says it's permanent and it's on everything not made in the USA, imported into the US, including auto parts. So the order now is.

I guess there were some, you know, discussions and then delays, delays again, and now it looks like it's going to be put into place on April 2nd with starting, the tariffs is starting to be charged on April 3rd, and then the parts goes into effect on May 3rd, I believe that that's the directive. And on top of that,

there's the April 2nd of reciprocal tariffs. And on top of that, for China, have the 100 % tariffs on EVs already in place. So it didn't change. I don't think it didn't change that much for China on the whole vehicle import. It was irrelevant anyways.

Elon said something that Tesla was not unscathed because of parts involved in this. I think that was what he was alluding to. And the big three, I think the German automakers, Japanese, they're all having a headache right now.

Tu Le 

So.

Elon wants to say that they're not unscathed, but clearly they have, and I'd written this in my newsletter, about a million units of capacity. Let's say around 800,000 units of capacity between Fremont and Austin Giga. So most of their vehicles that they sell into the United States in North America for that fact are built in the United States.

Lei Xing 

100 %

Tu Le 

So I'm looking at this again with my supply chain hat on, which I used to do for a living. I would look at, this is Tesla to a lesser extent, but the complexity of the product portfolios of each of the automakers, and I'm referring specifically to Stellantis, GM and Ford, are much more complex and...

I don't know. I would say 20, 25 % of the parts. I'm guessing, completely guessing. So if somebody has a much better idea of the common parts across all of these products from GM, the common parts, and I'm talking like gas caps, I'm talking even tires, wheels, the buttons that you put on to unlock the door, those types of things, are those common across different products?

If they're all made in the United States, awesome. But if not, then what do we do? Okay. There's these different scenarios that the sourcing teams are going to go through. Does Lei Button supplier have a facility in the United States? Because I currently, he currently ships my button from Mexico. Okay. As part of a module or com-

you know, as part of a system, okay?

If he wants my business, he's gonna need to move it to the United States. Now, is that realistic because he has excess capacity and he can move it quickly over? We just ship the tooling from Mexico to the United States? Or does he have to build a brand new facility? Because if that's the case, then it's not gonna work for our timing. And number two, we're likely going to have to pay for some of that.

building out of the facility or the extra line. And so now I need to go to Tu Le Button Factory and see if they have excess capacity in the United States. so they're kind of, they market test all the time anyways. So they should know right off the top of their heads who builds this component or a similar component in the United States. And the fact of the matter is it's optimized

Lei Xing 

Ugh.

Tu Le 

for the USMCA.

Lei Xing 

And the USMCA, if I understand it correctly in this executive order, whether parts are compliant, also the tariffs could be different. Is that what I'm understanding? And also if the imported somehow vehicle or components have US content.

then it's a bit complicated.

Tu Le 

I Trump says this at a hundred thousand foot level and then his team, cabinet, his staff, then put all the pieces together. I think it's completely top down. We're going to do X. They don't care what the implications are. don't, they don't actually do the research on the implications.

or collateral damage because remember here, a lot of the people that will be affected, although Shawn Fain did tweet or write a letter of support. Well, I think he's happy, but he's gritting his teeth as he writes that letter.

Lei Xing 

he's happy. Yeah.

Exactly, the cost of manufacturing is going to go up, the cost for the consumers to buy is going to go up. And Trump even, I saw the news that he kind of told the big three, don't raise prices. He just does his own thing.

Tu Le 

because we know that they don't like each other.

Lei Xing 

I was looking at some of the data, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Germany are the five countries that are most exposed. I actually think, yeah.

Tu Le 

Let me stop you there, Lei,

because we've had a free trade agreement, generally speaking, with Canada for forever. And so we actually benefit from a free trade agreement with Canada. We don't with Mexico, except for the fact that we cars that in theory are cheaper because, or from a pricing standpoint, because the cost base is lower in Mexico. Okay. I get that.

Lei Xing 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tu Le 

but to...

of Canada, it's just nonsensical.

Lei Xing 

Well, I that's the way it is right now. Or you go get to the fact. Yeah, I know.

Tu Le 

Yeah, yeah, and you

you know this, but I guess I just had to say it.

Lei Xing 

No, I just thought it interesting. Actually, the most hurt, I was talking about the Japanese, the Germans, the Americans, Koreans. Well, Hyundai made that huge announcement. 21 billion.

Tu Le 

So

the one thing that I'm not clear of and I didn't have time to do the research, the $20 billion, was that already announced and they're just repeating it? Or is there new money? So that's what I'm not clear about.

Lei Xing 

I wasn't

sure either, but that was what they announced. It might include what was already included, but I mean, that's a huge investment. I think it came at the right time. I it was in place many years. I think it was in place in 2021 or something. And now it's materializing, which, you know, yeah.

Tu Le 

Well, remember that...

Importantly,

even if it's existing, the Trump team is going to take it and run with it as a huge win. This is working. This is working.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I was saying, know, the Japanese Koreans Americans Germans actually Germans are losing the most or They have the most who lose especially BMW group. Why? Because they're exposed on all three continents They're exposed because they EVs out of China into Europe they're exposed because it import engines for from Europe

for cars that are made in the US. They're exposed because of the Canada, Mexico tariffs. They're exposed because now the 25 % also goes to the European side of it. So they were talking about this in the audience that it'll affect 1 % to 1.5 % percentage point of their operating margins. Now this is going to take a further hit.

So, and then I was reading that comment from MonaLane and she had the audacity to say that it hurts consumers, it hurts businesses when she did it herself, right? I mean, it's always cringes.

Tu Le 

Yeah

So the crazy

thing is, Lei is that we know.

Strategically, the Germans are getting hurt because of their inability, and this is more conceptual, their inability to do software to keep up with China EV Inc. And you just outlined how operationally now they're getting hurt because it's multiple layers. One layer is product-driven. The other layer is operationally driven where we need to be efficient. And the best example I have

And for the last 40, 50 years, was Toyota. Okay. And they're still very operationally efficient, the new bogey or the new kind of leader in operational efficiency should be BYD or all the efficiency experts should be pointing to BYD because you don't go from half a million units to likely over 5 million units.

in what a seven year time span without being able to manage your supply chain, manage your sourcing, manage your costs. And they're doubling down on R and D again. so I don't know if you saw what I wrote on X. Ed Carson had tweeted about the U7 announcement and I said, the German, the Germans,

just kind of threw up in their mouths a little bit when they saw the U7 and then finally saw the price of the U7.

Lei Xing 

Now there's an E7, kind of the midsize sedan coming out. then they just announced another kind of a price cut for a few of their Ocean lineups. I don't know.

Tu Le 

Yeah, so...

And I think

we should also point out that Trump did, was asked, hey, did Elon ask you for anything or does he ask you for favors? And Trump said, no, but we can't help but think that.

Maybe he doesn't need to ask. Maybe the Trump administration knows and to the benefit of Elon and Tesla, they made certain carve-outs in his language and gave, and maybe, we don't know, maybe he asked Elon, how long would it take you? If your bill of materials is 100 parts and 20 parts come from Mexico or Canada or from outside of the United States, how long would it take you to resource these parts?

And he was like, maybe three months, six months. So maybe he talked to Elon like that.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, well before Trump, mean, in the early days, Elon's from an operational perspective, he's a big proponent of produce where you sell. that kind of helped. And that's what actually BYD is following suit with just now this report of them setting up a 10 billion plan in India.

And that this is the most recent and then I Mean they're right there. I looked at some numbers so that officially they're expecting 5.5 million and Some are predicting they can do 6.5 next year and potentially 10 million in 2030 No, I saw the message

Tu Le 

Yeah, I'm experimenting as we are live streaming.

Lei Xing 

Yeah,

that was pretty cool. And then they have eight ships on order, four ships already shipped, four ships coming this year as they target 800,000 in export. Right, we saw the numbers, earnings numbers, the revenues topped Tesla over 100 billion in revenues.

Tu Le 

Tesla's 95,

Lei Xing 

Yeah, 95

Tu Le 

I want to say.

Lei Xing 

ish just under on a billion

Tu Le 

And

let's repeat some other numbers that if you all have been watching in the past, you know this, I think it's worth repeating. BYD was 4.27 million, 38 % of their vehicles were BEVs. So about 1.6 million of those 4.27 were battery electric. So BYD is right on the heels of Tesla. This year, they'll more than likely sell more

Lei Xing 

but nope.

Tu Le 

battery electric vehicles because there's Tesla stands out there that don't want us to count the PHEVs Fine. That's fine. And so internally, according to CNEV sd and our friends, Jiawei BYD is looking at five and a half million units. remember I talked about operational efficiency.

Lei Xing 

no question.

Tu Le 

They're at five and a half million units. And remember that a lot of their vehicles, they build about 70 % of their own components. Okay. Right now it's a huge, huge, huge asset for them to have that much control. But this is where, it's sometime in the future growth, growth slows. And when you're that vertically integrated, creates other types of issues. So how he's.

going to manage that, especially because of this protectionism, Lei. So he's going to have to build in Europe, in Latin America, in South America, in Turkey, in Poland, I think, in Hungary or whatever. And so we've already agreed that Wang Chuanfu should be stood up as one of the best managers of the 21st century so far. know, phase two is going to be

as growth kind of plateaus specifically in the China market and he's looking for growth in these other markets, he's going to build locally. know that strategy for him or BYD anyways. And then being able to manage the transition from 90 % domestic sales to maybe 70 % domestic sales and 30%. And again, the base is growing. So it's not like, okay, I'm at five and a half million and I stop.

We agree that they have the potential to beat Toyota eventually in vehicle sales. So they'd be well over 10 million units then. So as the base grows and they're selling 30%, 35 % of their vehicles outside of China, we're talking three, 4 million units. And to your point, Lei, then we get into a BMW scenario where they're

building in all these different regions with the bulk of their production still in China though.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, so going forward, if those plants, overseas plants, materialize and it won't be smooth-sailing, first of all, then they could be on their way to 10 million. But it's not going to be easy. But the last year was obviously a

year of honor for BYD, pun intended, because launch of honor editions that was part of the price war tactic. Some of the numbers you mentioned, I want to peel the onions back a little bit. yeah, their BEV sales were just below Tesla's 1.79 million. Interestingly enough, 80 % of their sales were below 200,000 RMB

So mostly coming out of the BYD namesake brand. And the other three brands actually accounted for less than 5 % of sales. They export about 10 % of vehicles, but those 10 % of vehicles accounted for 29 % of revenues. And their gross margins are around 20%.

Tu Le 

Boom.

Lei Xing 

of the plugins. China sold 5, a little bit over 5 million plugins. BYD was almost half of it, 2.5 million. Okay, so top 10 NEV models. Guess how many were BYD?

Tu Le 

That's five. Eight. I was going to say seven. I was going to say seven.

Lei Xing 

8

Just some of the numbers I put down of their earnings. They actually among Tesla, Li Auto NIO, their R &D expand was 53 billion RMB.

and they're in over 100 plus countries and regions.

Tu Le 

For all intents and purposes to

the viewers and listeners, let's say it's $1 buys me about 7 RMB. So when he says, when Lei says ¥56 million, it's about $8 billion.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. So and then their goal this year is to have 60 % of sales with the highway NOA feature. Basically the God's Eye's Eye C

which they're launching as we speak, these different models, but not without challenges. One of those is the Financial Times report of this investigation into the Hungarian plant. I'm sure you saw that. The other one is a scrutiny over in Brazil. And I think the third one is

Tu Le 

Right. Yep.

Lei Xing 

What I think of Denza, Fang Cheng Bao, Yang Wang, it's going to be difficult to manage. And I won't be surprised if BYD pulls a Geely group tactic of somehow consolidating those plans.

Tu Le 

Here's the irony Lei

I don't think the Chinese, well, let me say this carefully. I think it's going to be more challenging for BYD to sell a premium vehicle in China because most Chinese consumers know them as a 200,000 and below. It doesn't matter if it's a Yang Wang or Fang Cheng Bao. I think Denza has an opportunity to kind of carve itself out because the vehicles are great.

and the brand isn't as closely associated to BYD as a Yang Wang and a Fang Cheng Bao. So I think the Yang Wang and the Fang Cheng Bao, especially if they can undercut the 7 Series, the EQS, the i7, they might have a better chance of success in Europe, the premium BYD brands.

Lei Xing 

which they're launching. think Denza they're launching. Fangchengbao is already on sale. But Denza I think has been stuck on 10,000 a month like forever even though they have launched several new models.

Tu Le 

Can you give our viewers the background on how Denza came to be?

Lei Xing 

BYD Mercedes. That's the history and then Mercedes backed out. So now it's all BYD. And that was founded in 2010.

Tu Le 

So early

Denza vehicles had a badge that said Denza designed by Mercedes, I want to say, or styled by Mercedes.

Lei Xing 

Yes, styled by Mercedes or something.

Tu Le 

The Denza is it the Z9? Is it the?

Lei Xing 

Z9, there's the Z9 GT, and then they just launched the N9, as we know.

Tu Le 

The Z9 GT looks great by

Lei Xing 

But the bulk of their sales so far is still the D9, the MPV. So it's something to watch. Yangwang, mean the Yangwang U7, I think people expect it to be another one of those million RMB model like the UA, the SUV.

Tu Le 

What was a little bit surprising to me

about the U7. for everyone this week, BYD had another press event. I won't say BYD, I'll say Wang Chuan Fu, because it wasn't a BYD press event. It was a Yangwang press event. And this is the third press event in the last six weeks, want to say, six or seven weeks. The first being, yeah, the first being

Lei Xing 

Yangwang Yeah

10.

Tu Le 

the announcement of God's Eye's Eye being standard on most of their vehicles this year across the brands. The second was the ultra-fast charging. And then the third was on Monday or Tuesday, where they unveiled the U7. So we already knew the U7 was coming. There's already videos about it. But now it is unveiled. They're going to start.

delivering it to customers and the pricing was 680,000.

Lei Xing 

$90,000

to roughly $80,000, $90,000.

Tu Le 

And your point is that the U8, U9? U8.

Lei Xing 

You now

are the other sports car, sports EV.

Tu Le 

Right.

So everyone speculating the U7 sedan was going to be about a million. I looked, the dimensions are effectively the same footprint as an EQS and an i7. So they are targeting. And the backseat is like first class in an airplane where the seats are reclining and things like that.

The one thing that surprised me, Lei, is that it doesn't have the ultra fast charge.

Lei Xing 

Well, you can't have everything. But UID seems to put all of this world feature into it, into the Yunnan Z and the quad motor. And this is the first NEV with a flat engine.

Tu Le 

Hahaha

Lei Xing 

in the world.

Tu Le 

Yeah.

A few more statistics, because I had written them down in my newsletter. So $680,000. It will be in a BEV and a PHEV.

it has crab walking and tank turns because there's four motors, one at each of the wheels. And we've been seeing on Chinese social a lot of those videos now of Denza's and Yang Wang's doing the, effectively parallel parking.

Lei Xing 

Yeah,

I said that they redefined parallel parking because you don't have to go back. You just slide in.

Tu Le 

yeah.

man,

it's amazing because I started to think more broadly about some of their announcements. I thought pretty broadly right away about the

God's Eye announcement, how someone in Thailand is now going to be able to have intelligent driving when I don't think the Thai government was looking at something like that for quite some time. But the charging.

That could put swapping on its heels. That could put oil companies on its heels. And so they're disrupting more than just the automotive space. And I

Lei Xing 

I'll do it.

Tu Le 

I haven't spoken to any, let's say European, okay? And when I say European, I mean German. I haven't spoken to any German executive, automotive executive that has given me any sense that they get it. I still don't think they get it.

You know, I think it, I think, I feel like they think it's impossible for this to be happening. They're still in disbelief as opposed to, you know, those five phases of acceptance or something like that, like boom. And they still seem to be in a little bit of denial.

Lei Xing 

Well, my perspective is they get it and they're trying hard. But whether how much bolder they can be is something else. By the way, starting price of the U7 is $628,000. So yeah, yeah. And then the higher, the...

Tu Le 

Yes, so sorry, yeah, sorry.

Lei Xing 

The four-seater flagship is $708,000, yeah, just under $100,000.

Tu Le 

I just pulled up my newsletter.

Oh, so PHEV, BEV, four and five seats. So you can get captain's chairs in the back seat or you can get a bench. 1300 horsepower, 1300 horsepower. So you're gonna need new tires every six months basically.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

I mean, could also be a competitor to the Xiaomi Su7 Ultra, at least the price point and the performance wise.

Tu Le 

Yeah, for sure.

That just means that Lei Jun is going to give everybody some money back when the Ultra starts delivering. That's all that means.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

Tu Le 

So the one thing that I wanted to talk to you about is they seem to have a clear motion competitor now too.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, that's the thing. That's the kind of, know, whether you are dedicated to do what clear motion does or you have a view ID that can basically do what some of the previous tier one, the well-known global tier one suppliers did. Suspension.

Tu Le 

Well, Clear Motion

is now a modern day tier one.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, yeah. But companies like a Baolong, right? The magic carpet that Li Auto has. It's a domestic supplier, well known.

Tu Le 

So for those that are wondering, ClearMotion was a spin out from MIT and they do body control systems and they have a huge win with Neo and the ET9. So it's more of a halo feature for the ET9.

Lei Xing 

which is delivering

tomorrow, China time. So,

Tu Le 

So Jeffrey, don't know what color did you order Jeffrey when you got your ET9? So, it has the God's Eye's Eye A, which has the three LiDAR and I'm talking about the U7.

Lei Xing 

Uhhh...

Tu Le 

Two Nvidia chips that equal total of 508 tops.

Lei Xing 

I believe it's also got Hesai LiDARs

Tu Le 

For-

Yeah, 450 miles of range for the Bev and 625 miles of range on the PHEV. So I didn't have time to do side by sides with the EQS and the i7, but I'll take a look to see where they're at. But in China, the i7 and EQS are, I want to say,

Lei Xing 

3-3, Lighthouse.

There's this.

Tu Le 

almost one

and a half times as expensive.

Lei Xing 

their

And yeah, the other thing I just, today is the one year anniversary of the launch of the Xiaomi Su7. A year ago, the Su7 launched and a year later, roughly, I'd say 200,000 units have been delivered. One model from a newbie. And...

Tu Le 

Huh.

Lei Xing 

this this did you see this speed guy that the YouTube KOL he's in China now live streaming and he was on its Xiaomi Ultra it was like this thing's $70,000 even better than my $250,000 Lamborghini Huracan

Tu Le 

Hmm.

Yeah, well, it's weird. I still find it weird that more people are poo-pooing, or I won't say more, people are poo-pooing Chinese products and things like that, but you and I have never met them in China.

So I think it's hard to really take people seriously unless you go over there and sit behind a car. And if you want to pick it apart because you've sat in the vehicle, driven the vehicle, and understand how traffic works in China, when you're specifically talking about intelligent driving, then I'm going to give you kudos. But don't be lazy, man.

and sit in your office in freaking California or New York and think that people are going to take you seriously when you're poopooing, you know, what's going on in China and point to subsidies, point to this point to that. Man, at the end of the day, these people are working their butts off and

So, and I always bring up the fact that Tesla vehicles, most of them have subsidies on them. Tesla's factory in Fremont was effectively free. It was a $40 million plant. It's a plant that builds hundreds of thousands of cars that they bought for $40 million.

that should have cost them well over a billion.

Lei Xing 

Yeah,

I mean, how do you make apples to the apples comparison? That's the point.

Tu Le 

And the company in my backyard, General Motors, they got bailed out by the US government. So.

Volkswagen is owned, 17 % is owned by a state.

Lei Xing 

Lower Saxony

Tu Le 

So how is that not state owned?

Nobody ever calls Volkswagen State owned, no one.

So anyways, I digress. So let's do this because I see a chart that I'd put in the newsletter. Mexico is number one for vehicles imported into the United States. Japan is number two. I don't know. Korea.

Lei Xing 

Japan is number

two in value, South Korea is number two in volume, and then everyone else is the same.

Tu Le 

Value, yes.

Lei Xing 

Canada, Germany, number four and five.

Tu Le 

Yeah, so...

So that means that Toyota ships a lot of Lexuses and they ship a lot of high-end SUVs over probably. So I could be wrong on the SUV side. Where do they build the 4Runner? Where do they build the Land Cruiser? I'll find out and I'll let everybody know.

Anything else you want to talk about,

Lei Xing 

No, I think these were the two most important topics this week. And then we're at the end of March, which means we're going to see Q1 numbers coming out in a few days.

Tu Le 

looking here.

Well, you did say that

LiAuto did not do weekly numbers. How long do you think that's gonna last? Do you think that's gonna last a long time or do think...

Lei Xing 

Well, the...

As long as CAAM has put out that notice and called it out, doesn't mean that others won't put it out. But I think at least Li Auto is going to only put their own numbers out on a weekly basis.

Tu Le 

Okay.

And we should acknowledge, we're winding down, this is, and again, apologies for being late, but this is gonna be a short one unless people have questions. And I'll take a look at the comments, but I know Jeffrey must have a bit of anxiety because NIO is going to sell more of its company to the public. I think $450 million are looking at raising.

from the external market.

Lei Xing 

No, I think recently NIO Li Bin, he had this long interview with a group of media and I saw some of those transcripts and it really meant to me that he's like, you know, this is the year we have to worry in our 11th year, we're in our 11th year and a goal is a goal.

Q4 breaking even, doubling sales, those are still in place. If they don't do it, I get the sense that there's, we can't say this and then we don't do it and next year, okay, we're gonna do it in 2026, we're gonna do it in 2027. That doesn't work. So there's nine months left. You know, it's.

get going. I don't know what happens after that if they don't meet their targets. The biggest targets doubling sales and breaking even in Q4. It's scary man.

Tu Le 

This is where I

really, this is where I really have to give GM a lot of credit with the $30,000 Equinox EV. They do, they had to go low. And for all of the hiccups that they've had up until this point, they do have a viable, I've driven the Equinox EV. should, you should check it out. You know, just, just so you get an idea of what 30,000 buys you.

in the United States before we go back to China and get in every single BYD vehicle that's under $30,000. But Ford doesn't have a $30,000 EV. Stellantis is talking about having a $30,000 EV, but...

Lei Xing 

Well,

Ford is developing one, hopefully it is $30,000 that the skunk works.

Tu Le 

Yeah, 30,000 is a low number, even for China. So because most of those companies in China, they're not making money off of that $30,000 car. So.

Lei Xing 

And with the tariffs,

I don't know how to make that possible. $30,000 BV in the US.

Tu Le 

And

I guess this is kind of random. I'm jumping around. You said 29 % of their profits or revenue, BYDs, anyways, revenues. Yeah, so how that number is going to evolve for BYD because of the tariffs is going to be important for us to keep an eye on. And will BYD employ the same strategy that

Lei Xing 

revenues come from the 10 % of export 400,000 units

Tu Le 

It's employed in China where it's like, I'm just going to make it super painful for every participant in every market segment that my competitors compete with me in. That's what they're doing. They're just making it as painful as possible. And one Trump was not looking at, I need to make this much profit every quarter. He's looking at.

What's my trajectory in order to get to 10 million, 12 million units? And then he's looking at who do I need to push out of the market?

So let's take a look. I'll read some of these. Tariff the planet. Tariff fr everything. Ugh, that's what Jeffrey wrote.

And, Jeffrey wrote DJT simply, I think that's Donald J. Trump for those that, for, for, for the non-Americans understand the extreme complication and cost that involves the concept, this concept either. And he's talking about tariffs. He backs off this or his entire team does not understand worldwide supply chain and likely locks Elon in the closest, Elon in the closest during these conversations.

More power to China and an EVCO China is likely planting more corn for all the popcorn They will be popping to watch this clown show Anyways, Mike I will tell you offline a little bit about this shirt next time I see you

Lei Xing 

boy.

Ha

Tu Le 

BYD is the new Godzilla. That's Jeffrey again. then Mike, if US EVs are five years behind China today, after four years of tariffs, we'll be 20 years behind. So.

Lei Xing 

Hmm.

Tu Le 

And so, so SPX is Aston Martin a sponsor. Unfortunately, they are not, although I have not approached them and perhaps they'd be interested in sponsoring, but there's a funny story behind these shirts. I told Lei about them. I have a few other ones too, that I'll wear. didn't think they were going to be, yeah, I didn't think they were going to be that interested. So no Velcro. So.

Lei Xing 

One takes, one take.

They're interchangeable, right? You can slap them on.

okay.

Tu Le 

But that makes a lot more sense anyways. And then VW sold more sausages than cars. I think Jeffrey's joking, but he said, kill me. I think he wrote that right after I Neo is selling more shares.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, well

they're below $4 again, right? I think, yeah, just stuck there forever.

Tu Le 

Yeah. So.

Let me see here. I will look at LinkedIn. there any? Okay. Felix, what's going on, buddy? Felix Hamer is on.

Lei Xing 

just remembered as we maybe last thing we'll mention is as we get closer to the Shanghai Auto Show, a few of what's been happening of the foreign automakers, some of the announcement. One that stood out was BMW Group putting Alibaba's big model into their upcoming Neue Klasse the iX3 locally produced starting next year. And they'll show

Tu Le 

Mm-hmm.

Lei Xing 

something at the Shanghai Auto Show of this integrated smart cockpit with these type of Chinese AI inside, let's just say that. And expect this to happen more as we get to these more of these announcements.

Tu Le 

German

digital innovation with Chinese characteristics.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, like I said, the Germans are the hardest trying to become more Chinese, more than any other foreign brands or automakers in China. mean, look at, Ola was at the China Development Forum. Oliver Zipse was at the China Development Forum. And all they said was, how much of the OS development for the Chinese market was led by a local team?

And I just speaking of OS, the auto just open source their halo OS. That was an interesting move. So.

Tu Le 

I have to.

There was a post,

this week on LinkedIn where the guy was like, cause he was posting as a freaking European guy, posting about BYD. And then in second place, Tesla being the fastest charging vehicles. And then our friend from Lucid, he kindly interjected that, no, Lucid is the fastest charging American car company. And so it's just like, dude, don't be so lazy that you...

Whoever posts this stuff, you need to be accurate and or you need to update. But we admit it, right? I don't have that kind of ego where it's like, because we're just trying to keep up with all the information. And that's why it takes two of us. But I don't have any problems saying that I made a mistake in last week's episode.

Lei Xing 

Well, we're even not accurate sometimes.

Yeah.

Tu Le 

If people tell me I make a mistake, I'll try to correct myself in the following episode. But it is, that just seems to be lazy, you know?

Yeah.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

Tu Le 

And then let see here. Here's Pankaj just wrote, any potential upside for China Auto from all these tariff mess. Looks like any plans for China Auto manufacturing in Mexico will be delayed.

I'll say this, I'll say that because the Chinese still primarily manufacture in China, they don't have a lot of capital assets outside of China. And so they can wait this out because Trump is technically only going to be in office for four years. And you can even look at.

The fact that in two years we're going to have an election on the House side and some of the Senate. So all this power that he has, he's upsetting a good portion of the US population. So will he be unencumbered in two years? That's the question. you know, BYD doesn't want to do this.

But they're in the cat seat because they do have the flexibility. The China market is still growing. So even if they focus a little bit less on the foreign markets over the next couple of years, I think they're going to be fine. Now, the XPengs and the Nios to a lesser extent, the Li Autos, they need sales to really build outside of China.

But...

I think they could turn tragedy, not tragedy, complications into opportunity. What do you think, Leigh?

Lei Xing 

Yeah, I I somewhat agree. The North American region as a market is the most lucrative, but also the last frontier of all the Chinese who have the ambition to be global. now their focus is, besides China, is basically other regions of the world. And it's everywhere else other than North America for now. Given the tariffs.

and that discussions with Europe are still going about the tariffs there. There's no way that even the discussions can be had because Trump is pretty firm.

Tu Le 

But,

and this is more about geopolitics, but it pushes Europe closer to China.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, mean, the activities are still pretty, you know, it's right there, whether it be  whether it be anybody else, BYD, you know, possibly not only BYD, but some of these other ones scouting for production in Europe.

And that also it comes back to what CATL and Gotion has been doing in the first place because one, US automakers, want to produce more affordable EVs. They need their health. And second, it's to circumvent the kind of the tariffs thing, but it's facing local pushback. Even if Trump welcomes Chinese investment, welcomes Chinese

Tu Le 

So.

Lei Xing 

manufacturing and jobs, then the stigma of China or CCP is always there.

Tu Le 

No, I disagree.

think Trump, if he turns 180 degrees, he's going be like, they're our friend. we love China. love.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, he said that. I mean, he says she

is his good friend.

Tu Le 

So I think he can...

turn on a dime and his blind followers will still follow him. And it's the weirdest thing because this gets me wondering what will Shawn Fain's letter be then? It's not going to be, we welcome these Chinese companies. He's not going to write that because they're not going to be union workers. so one thing that Felix did write and

Lei Xing 

It is.

Yeah, it'll be the other way around.

Right.

Tu Le 

I want to hammer this home because this is why it's important to be a leader.

or at least be a major player on the clean energy side. writes, you know, you know what's funny? Thanks to NIO and Jeffrey, can, you can take some pride out of this. Thanks to Neo, Amsterdam has dirt cheap 500 kilowatt charging. So.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, I saw that

post about, what was it? 30 cents euros per kilowatt hour or something.

Tu Le 

Yeah. But then

it says Felix had some challenges with the Lucid when he borrowed it. Then he went to take the Lucid there and it was just utterly dis- So, you know, I think there's going to be growing pains whenever there's new technology.

after losing percent after percent with giving it lots of preheating time. yeah. know, Lucid still doesn't have that many units on the road. So I think their list of bugs is pretty short still with regards to the air. And then the gravity is starting delivery, but I can't imagine there are

that many gravities on the road in the wild yet. anyways, hey, that's all I have been.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, same here.

Tu Le 

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you all next week.

Lei Xing 

Likewise, bye bye.