Episode #209 - Xiaomi’s First Crisis Don’t Sleep on 🇨🇳 AV Inc. Updated XPeng P7 Unveiled

In this episode, Tu and Lei discuss the latest developments in the electric vehicle (EV) sector, focusing on key players like NIO, Xiaomi, and BYD. They explore NIO's recent product launches, the competitive landscape in China's EV market, and the challenges faced by Xiaomi. 

The conversation also delves into the rise of robotaxis and autonomous vehicles, as well as the strategic moves by GM and Ford in the EV space. The hosts emphasize the importance of consumer sentiment and brand loyalty in this rapidly evolving market, concluding with thoughts on future trends and the overall outlook for the industry.

Keywords

EV, NIO, Xiaomi, BYD, Robotaxi, Autonomous Vehicles, GM, Ford, China Automotive Industry, Market Trends

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• 19:13 (Cont.) Episode #209 - Xiaomi’s First Crisis Don’t Sleep on 🇨🇳 AV Inc. Updated XPeng P7 Unveiled

Transcript

Tu Le 
Welcome to China EVs and more. In the next hour or so, my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV and mobility sectors.
 
 What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome. And ‚Åì to our loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. We ask that you smash those subscribe and like buttons so you don't miss anything from us in the future. I'm confident that Lei and I are two of the most important and knowledgeable people, well, maybe not important, but knowledgeable people in the world doing this. So help us get the world out.
 
 word out to other enthusiasts. My name is Tu Le I'm the Managing Director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech-focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at sinoautoinsights.substack.com, which of course I encourage you all to do. Lei, hey, still in Beijing, Lei.
 
 Can you please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing 
 Good morning to you. Good evening from Beijing. This is your co-host Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. Number 209. ‚Åì Just watched the new ES6 and EC6 launch.
 
 It's here and then the next will be the ET5 and the 5T coming on next week ‚Åì
 
 You wanna talk a little bit about that? mean, they pack more punch into it. The prices stay the same. I think a few things that they added is obviously that chip, which we talked about last episode, that was on the ET9, Shenqi NX9D31. They added that, they have the new Cedar OS.
 
 Tu Le 
 Shenqing?
 
 Lei Xing 
 They have this new Nomi They brought in the new world model, some of the new capabilities that they will push out toward the end of June. ‚Åì They finally have a stock.
 
 lever gear shifter instead of a what you call it on the center console shifter to make room for so you can charge two phones in the center console. And now they have the horizontal screen.
 
 Tu Le 
 Hmm.
 
 Hmm.
 
 Lei Xing 
 So some, you know, it's an upgrade. Prices are staying the same. ‚Åì I was looking at the app and some of the new features, NomiMate 3.0, you have to pay extra. ‚Åì The digital rear view mirrors, you have to pay extra. They did include the vehicle to load function for free. ‚Åì But you know, it's tough, right? Because they, so the 338,
 
 Tu Le 
 Hmm.
 
 Lei Xing 
 for the ES6 and the 358k before battery as a service for the EC6. Now remember the L90 is preparing for launching Q3 and that model
 
 is probably, it should be below 300,000 in the positioning. But it's the rhythm, these products.
 
 Tu Le 
 Well, this goes back to NIO saying that they're going to be launching eight products in 2025. ‚Åì Many of them are, yeah, many of them are refreshes, not new products, but new-ish. And so I think the L90 is pretty much one of the only few ‚Åì new products from a new newish brand. Also, I think what struck me, Lei, is that he's in full racing suit.
 
 Lei Xing 
 We have two and two coming.
 
 Tu Le 
 with a helmet demonstrating some of the operating system upgrades to avoidance for vehicle intelligent driving avoidance. I think they punctured two tires in one of the tests. Were you watching some of that stuff? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah, so basically
 
 it did the same thing as the ET9. This is one of the new features that was on the ET9. They brought it to the ES6 and the EC6. Basically, just a high speed tire puncture ‚Åì feature that will automatically stabilize your vehicle. There's a tire monitoring system that can react in 0.3 seconds. And that did help. I mean, it's part of their sky.
 
 OS ride system. mean he's just trying to show as a brand.
 
 Tu Le 
 SkyOS
 
 that incorporates the clear motion leveling.
 
 Lei Xing 
 their motion
 
 by wire, the chassis, smart chassis. ‚Åì Yeah, I mean, he was just saying, you know, this is the technology that they were trying to put on these new vehicles for the new brand. ‚Åì And he's a workaholic, right? He's live streaming, he's doing his stunts, ‚Åì trying very hard.
 
 Tu Le 
 So here's the, it must be the most frustrating thing because Li Bin I know he believes in NIO the brand. know he has, I know he knows that there are some management and operational challenges that they still need to work out, some sales challenges that they need to work out, but he goes through these things and he's so hardworking, so diligent with regards to.
 
 promoting these new features and these new technologies and then a Week later BYD is like hold my beer and it gives all this stuff for free so it must be the It first of all, it's an example of the hyper competition that's happening in China Okay, that has nothing to do with NIO It has everything to do with all of these brands
 
 trying to emerge from the pack, number one. Number two, trying to steal hundreds of units of sales from each other brand every week. And with BYD shipping 400,000 units a month, that's gotta be one of the most frustrating things to these CEOs who are just trying to squeeze margin.
 
 in order to push new products and new features out. then again, BYD is holding my beer. ‚Åì I think the biggest trend and let me finish my thought Lei real quick. think the biggest thing is that. Unfortunately, Americans don't benefit, but Chinese consumers benefit from this because they get, and we have to think of ABB because normally these types of features would come on a $90,000.
 
 $120,000 halo sedan, halo SUV, and then three, four, five years later trickle down once they've really squeezed out all the profit they can from these high-end features. But now these high-end features are in vehicles in China that are less than $50,000, which is mind boggling.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, so I think it's very difficult for a brand like NIO to uphold their premiumness in this environment. think the narrative right now, if we look at the news that has happened the last couple of days, is really reorganization. I'm talking about GLE, right? I'm talking about cost efficiency. NIO did their event without inviting media. It did the event at the F2 NIO house. And it's interesting that
 
 NIO, Li Bin wasn't even talking. It was Li Tianshu, Ted Li. He was talking most of time. And the crowd that was invited was either the employees or the owners. There's no media. That's part of the cost cutting ‚Åì that NIO has done with this launch and also with Firefly. They did the launch inside a new house. ‚Åì And then...
 
 XPeng as right last couple of days, we've all seen the new P7 has been gone viral a little bit with the kind of a...
 
 I'd say it was a provocative design, because it kind of looks different than what we have currently on the market. It was pushing the envelope, the way to describe it.
 
 Tu Le 
 So it reminds me
 
 of a little bit of a Dodge Charger, the EV here that's struggling. You know, the silhouette and kind of the design. I like it a lot. I think the P7 and the P7 Plus didn't go far enough. The original P7 was kind of nice-ish, but the... So we know a lot of the comms people at XPeng, they're working overtime because He Xiaopeng and Brian Gu.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I do too.
 
 Tu Le 
 They're all over social. They're all over LinkedIn. So good for them great English language
 
 Lei Xing 
 Li Bin just posted
 
 on X and LinkedIn. I mean, their team posted, but of the tire puncture video. I mean, yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 So
 
 we're seeing that there's this copycatting. really, really, there is no breathing room. Because XPeng launched this P7, then within 48 hours, less than 48 hours, the NIO. So they had to have known that NIO was going to do this event. And then XPeng decided we're going to steal some thunder and launch
 
 Lei Xing 
 No.
 
 Tu Le 
 four pictures of the P7. And so it's supposed to be out in July this year. So the other important thing about the NIOs and the XPengs versus the Tesla is that while ‚Åì Elon gets on earnings calls and says, we're going to launch this in June of this year, launch this in two years, these things never materialize, at least not on the timeframe that Elon originally articulates.
 
 Whereas in China, you get one chance. And if you're not announcing on Sunday, selling on Monday, that window of opportunity closes really quickly and people will move on.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Thanks.
 
 is marketing, know, branding, ‚Åì pushing out these content as meticulously planned.
 
 I mean, there's a rhythm, right? And then also this week we had the launch of, I think you mentioned about it, the new C10, the 2026 C10, right? 120, 130,000 with LIDAR. 800 volt architecture. mean, how does Firefly compete with that?
 
 Tu Le 
 Yes.
 
 Lei Xing 
 If I can get a.
 
 Tu Le 
 That's...
 
 Outside of the ET9 Lei, you know, I think the M9, but that's been out a while. Outside of the ET9 being kind of the premium, the halo premium offering, the most interesting segments are the mass market segments, the small, the small medium sized sedan, P7 being that thing. The P7, I don't think it's going to be more than 300,000 RMB. So that's about $41,000 in today's FX rate.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yes, sir.
 
 Tu Le 
 And then to your point, C10, the L90 and a bunch of other cars, the YU7 is likely going to come around $35,000 as well. So that seems to be the most exciting segment in the next six to eight months for me.
 
 Lei Xing 
 And speaking of YU7, you're referring to the Xiaomi YU7, correct?
 
 Tu Le 
 Yes. Is there another YU7?
 
 Lei Xing 
 And speaking of, right?
 
 No, I was thinking of the Yangwang U7. There's too many models. ‚Åì So that's why we have to say Y-U7.
 
 Tu Le 
 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right on. Sure. Well, let's
 
 just call the let's just call the Xiaomi. cheat. You cheat.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yuqi, yeah, Yuqi, yeah. Well,
 
 Yang Wang and Yuqi is the same, right? So, speaking of Xiao Mi, yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah, well, let's differentiate. Let's
 
 which one do you want to call the YU7? Which one you want to call the UG so we know let's call the Xiaomi you you seven.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well, Yu Qi is Xiaomi.
 
 OK, Xiaomi YU7. Xiaomi is right now ‚Åì listed as part of the topic for today's show. ‚Åì think Xiaomi right now is in a dark place. ‚Åì Have you seen the
 
 Tu Le 
 Okay.
 
 They've had three
 
 weeks of sales reduction, right? But, you go ahead. You detail this dark place and how they came about because some people are probably viewing for the first time.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Have you seen the latest
 
 video of Lei Jun speaking internally at an event? Have you seen that video? That's been on Twitter? So he was holding up a piece of paper and reading every word from that script. It's very jarring.
 
 Tu Le 
 I have not.
 
 So this is a leaked
 
 internal video, leaked internal video.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well,
 
 I wouldn't say it's leaked. It could be planned. Yeah, can't. So, I mean, he was holding the paper in front of him and reading it off as he spoke. I mean, like, we've never seen that before, right? I he's always loose and trying to be fun and humorous. And he says something about that we're 15 years old.
 
 Tu Le 
 planted.
 
 Lei Xing 
 And we must hold ourself to higher expectations and standards and responsibilities. yeah, the company, right, the company. And the fallout has been from, first of all, the accident. And then this YU7 Ultra on the hood, had this.
 
 Tu Le 
 He's saying the company's 15, not the car division.
 
 Lei Xing 
 feature, right, where there was this hole, two holes that were supposed to give better aerodynamics. And ‚Åì there were some talk about them being there for nothing. It didn't have that ‚Åì capability. So there was some backlash, and I think several owners, dozens of owners, are trying to return the car.
 
 Tu Le 
 See.
 
 Lei Xing 
 So.
 
 Tu Le 
 Which is weird, Lei
 
 because... ABB... Go ahead.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Because for me as an owner, that means you
 
 lie to me. That's basically what it is,
 
 Yeah, so we're talking about coming.
 
 Tu Le 
 so you said that they
 
 have these fake accessories on the hood of the SU7 Ultra and...
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well, let's not call it
 
 freak. Let's call it ‚Åì something that was communicated to the users, but it looks like there's videos online that purportedly showing the intended ‚Åì feature or the use of the hood ‚Åì did not work. And that caused some backlash.
 
 Tu Le 
 Hmm.
 
 Lei Xing 
 So that's basically what has happened since the accident itself.
 
 Tu Le 
 So, but here's the thing.
 
 And this is where, to your point, when it rains, pours because people are just now.
 
 First of all, social media picks up trends and then amplifies it. That's just what social media algorithms do. Number one. Number two, yes, there seems to be this buildup of backlash to the brand because up until this accident, no one was willing to say a bad thing about the Xiaomi SU7.
 
 At least in the social media stuff that I was seeing now, it just seems like people are piling on. The one thing about these hood accessories is that that's a tale as old as old as time. It's not unique to Xiaomi and we won't call them fake. But if you look at ABB, we look at sports cars.
 
 they'll have dual tailpipes in the rear. And then if you look at the actual muffler, it will only be one single tailpipe or a double tailpipe, and they'll have fake dual tailpipes. So I see that as kind of similar, but.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 So this is not unique to Xiaomi or the SU7. It's kind of an automotive thing where they just try to fake you out to imply that the vehicle's tougher, the vehicle's more luxurious, the vehicle's more premium. And add this to the five or six things that have popped up, seven, eight, nine things that have popped up to make the SU7 a bit more vulnerable. And this can't make...
 
 Lei Jun feel well about the YU7 and the rollout later this year. So one thing that is a bit unique about the current SU7 ‚Åì situation is that normally social media, ‚Åì something bad will last a handful of days at the most and then people will move on. But this has really started to gain a lot of traction.
 
 and sustained itself in the social media. But why do you think that is, Lei?
 
 Lei Xing 
 It's simply because it's Xiaomi. Xiaomi has a bigger ring around this name than anybody else because of the way that they've entered the EV, the way that Lei Jun has been out there. know, saying that I'm going to dedicate my, this is the last thing I'm going to do, dedicating my life to EVs and trying to become the world top five.
 
 Tu Le 
 how much impact they've made in such a amount of time.
 
 Lei Xing 
 You planted these flags and now you have to live up to it, right? And now you have this kind of backlash that you have to kind of massage a little bit, take some time and we'll see how the sales go. You know, it's just four weeks. I don't want to put any conclusion to that, but it's not helping.
 
 And I think that's a precarious thing for any and every one of the brands that are competing.
 
 Tu Le 
 Right, and.
 
 Even though the market is 25, 26 million units in China, with 50 % of those being NEVs, these companies are treating the market like zero sum, okay? Because the market is growing, so everybody can still grow, but what we're seeing is within certain segments and against certain brands, the zero sum mentality. If Xiaomi gets sales, they're taking it away from me, as opposed to everybody can grow.
 
 And that's a mature market characteristic versus an emerging market or a growth market characteristic, which is very unique to China.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Also, the competition is not only the price war itself. It's the war of words. So there was another viral video the last few days of Yeah, ‚Åì of Li Bin on a panel with ‚Åì Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and you know the ABB.
 
 executive. He was saying at least we did not copy you guys. That's a direct, well that's an indirect swipe at Xiaomi I think.
 
 Tu Le 
 Hmm.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Because he said, know, our ET9 is one of the most original designs in the EV market, right? So these things happen, right? These things, know, indirectly or not, you take a, you know, you put some salt on the wound. But maybe subconsciously, not directly, you know.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah.
 
 I'm going to be...
 
 I'm
 
 gonna throw this parallel.
 
 between Li Bin, Lei Jun and our situation, You've been in the Chinese automotive sector since day one, effectively. And I'd like to say I was one of the earliest in kind of the China EV stuff. And so Li Bin, he's been doing the NIO thing since 2014. Okay. And so.
 
 He's been toiling away for over 10 years and then Lei Jun comes in three years later, hits a home run with the SU7 And so you and I, we get upset. We have direct messages with other people because there are people riding our coattails on talking about, ‚Åì I knew about Chinese EVs, blah, blah, blah. But we didn't see them in Shanghai.
 
 There's like two or three particular people that you and I are talking about. And so I understand Li Bin's frustration and why he might poke a little bit.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I think he was maybe he was you know
 
 a little bit frustrated that's why those those words came out.
 
 Tu Le 
 Cause, cause Li Bin, this is where I have respect for him because his products are really good. The ET9 is great.
 
 Lei Xing 
 He's really trying.
 
 He's the hardest trying CEO in the smart EV space. And their tech, right? They try to have these original tech, whether it's Nomi, whether it's the Shenqi chip, ‚Åì whether it's others, power swap itself, ‚Åì clear emotion. Well, I mean, these are ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 I would not... Go ahead.
 
 Clear motion.
 
 Lei Xing 
 third party suppliers, but still, right, he's trying to show that we're trying to put the latest and the greatest and that nobody else has on our vehicles. And that unfortunately has not turned into the expected volumes and profitability. think that's what he's kind of... ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 And NIO is the OG when it comes to customer engagement in the EV space.
 
 so he's venting for sure. He's projecting his frustration a little
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah. Yeah. So.
 
 Tu Le 
 And
 
 all the ABB heads can do is kind of like, we don't want to get into this mess because number one, they're not Chinese. Okay. And if they saw, if Chinese social saw or that the German executives are bullying some of the Chinese EV executives, man, I don't think they'd be very forgiving. ‚Åì But
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 The last thing I'll say is that I kind of understand Li Bin because I think we're doing quality work. I think he has quality vehicles. And then these guys come swoop in, to take credit, try to take some of the shine away from the people who've been toiling away ‚Åì really, really on the early days. And so ‚Åì I get it. I get it. But.
 
 NIO ‚Åì
 
 I, you and I have said this for four or five years, three or four years where it's like, I don't know, because the products seem to be okay. You know, the swapping is very unique, but they just can't put it all together. They can't put it all together.
 
 Lei Xing 
 We just had the experience. Yeah. We just had the experience.
 
 Whether it was the drive, whether it was the comfort, the power swap, Nomi, ‚Åì those are great products and tech.
 
 Tu Le 
 I was talking to
 
 somebody offline this week because I've been back a week and a day and I finally feel like I'm a little bit normal. Well, yeah, so yes, last night was the first night I went to. I actually fell asleep on the couch at like 9 o'clock and then I woke up at five so I feel kind of normal. But I was talking to somebody. Yeah, I don't. I don't know what strategy to give you, because bodies are different, but.
 
 Lei Xing 
 So hopefully you're no longer jet lagged.
 
 I'm gonna go through that.
 
 Everybody
 
 has their own strategy. It's like the Smart EV way.
 
 Tu Le 
 I was talking
 
 to somebody offline, a couple of people offline, because they were curious, hey, how was your experience? How was your trip? And so I can't think of one thing of the experience we had on the ET5, driving the NIO, using the swap station. I can't think of one thing that I was like, man, that was terrible. That just was not great. And so
 
 That's when I have to find things as opposed to like all of a sudden it just comes up naturally because it was something I was thinking about. You know, that's the thing. The new products and kind of the whole business model seems to be pretty good. I just don't know why they can't sell more cars.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, it's quite holistic, you know.
 
 Tu Le 
 Can you think of anything that you'd be like, man, they need to fix that? So.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well, my
 
 butt hurt, so that was the only thing. And now they have the new seating. Yeah, I'm thinner. So they have this new seating seats on the new ES6 and the EC6. I'm sure on the 5s as well. And as well as a Thai massage function on the new models.
 
 Tu Le 
 My butt is thicker than yours. My butt is thicker than yours.
 
 So if people are wondering, I use that massage function. Every time I was driving, I used the massage function. And when it turned off, I asked it to turn back on. So I was using it all the time. So if you're wondering who uses that on long trips, to me it's great. Especially when you don't have to press a bunch of buttons, when you can just say, hey, Nomi, know, kƒÅi an mo, right? Literally turn on massage.
 
 Lei Xing 
 It looks like you use a lot.
 
 But that's not a distinctive function to NIO. So that's the hard part. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 So.
 
 No, that's that's a qualifier now because every car
 
 So I'm
 
 in the Tang L two weeks ago and then the Tang L had it in the back seat, I think. I'm pretty sure it did. And so like people have it in the back seat now, which isn't, which shouldn't be unusual in a Chinese car. So.
 
 Anyways, know you did something. Go ahead.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Anyways, yeah, yeah, I mean, we've done what we're meant.
 
 No, we did our vent. Kind of. To start off. You know?
 
 Tu Le 
 So you did something really cool this morning. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
 
 Lei Xing 
 So ‚Åì I took a ride in the Baidu Gen 6 RT6, the bigger MPV-ish pure electric robot taxi. That was, by the way, unveiled three years ago. Can you believe how long that belt, it's already been? And the biggest thing about this robot taxi is the price. One of the events, they actually showed a receipt of this car.
 
 cost is 204,600 renminbi, which is the Gen 5 is 480,000 renminbi. Think about that delta from five to six. Yeah. And then the odd thing is, well, you know, they're still putting these coupons and discounts.
 
 Tu Le 
 So they took out more than 100%.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I took a 5.5 kilometer ride, took about 15 minutes. It ended up costing 3 RMB or less than half a dollar.
 
 Very comfortable, very spacious. Also it has the voice recognition function. You can tell it to put on a massage in the back two seats. So that was a little bit deja vu. And then you can also have a one button in the back to put it in the recline mode. So was joking with ‚Åì Liu Yang and some other Baidu people that...
 
 You could literally take this out for a spin after you have lunch and have a nap in it. Reclined with the massage on and just drive around and you have a nap in it. And it only costs you three MMB.
 
 Tu Le 
 So... It's good that you bring this up, Lei because...
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, other than that,
 
 I said it was boring, which means high mark. Yeah, you're wrong. The caveat was not that much traffic and it knew the area. So but I was still I was still put Waymo at the top even than this one because it was in the city. It was negotiating city traffic. So yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 You are knee-drawn. You are knee-drawn.
 
 So let's put to bed that the West is surprised about Chinese electric vehicles. I think we can kind of close the door on that.
 
 Lei Xing 
 and
 
 Tu Le 
 Now I want to revisit autonomous vehicles and the Chinese. Yeah, that was one of the newsletter ‚Åì headlines. You know, I was like, don't forget China AV Inc. meaning the WeRide, which, yes, especially on social the last week or two. WeRide announcing a pilot in Abu Dhabi Pony
 
 Lei Xing 
 Now it's going into the comics.
 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 quite active.
 
 Tu Le 
 We ride announcing partnerships with Uber and ‚Åì they're going to be launching a pilot or by do launching in Europe. so remember, we have Waymo, we have Zoox we have Nuro but Waymo is the 800 pound gorilla in the United States. And Nuro and Zoox are just kind of cute little companies that aren't making a huge impact.
 
 Maine Mobility in Michigan, of course, but.
 
 Waymo is Still the global leader in your opinion and in my opinion Unfortunately, I did not get a chance We were so focused on the EV stuff or I was so focused in the in the time I was in China but but we'll be back and I'm gonna spend a little more seat time in the robotaxis these when I go back and
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, gotta try it out. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 You know, I think this is again, Lei, where you and I are unique because we've spent a ton of seat time in intelligent driving systems in China and then also the robotaxis. So. And it's a different, it's a different experience. It's not the same.
 
 Lei Xing 
 with.
 
 No,
 
 It is,
 
 but at a certain point it started, I say it's becoming boring in a good way. Meaning you've associated robotaxis with everyday life, with normality of a type of mobility experience. And there's never any ‚Åì anxiety anymore.
 
 Tu Le 
 And here's what's important to remember, Lei, even if there's limited use cases for a robot taxi rollout in the United States and China, that's still a win to me. The ultimate goal is still point to point or parking space to parking space, as they say in China. Because Aurora Innovation, launched the freight pilot where
 
 Lei Xing 
 the
 
 Tu Le 
 A semi truck has no driver and it's going from Dallas to Houston, about 200 miles, I think. So huge significance and not a week or two after the pilot launches, Sterling Anderson, the co-founder of Aurora leaves to go to GM. We can talk about that later. We can talk about that later, but.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah.
 
 And then, yeah, he went to GM, Sure, sure.
 
 But also, there's a similar Chinese Aurora There's Cargobot. They are already running platoons in inner Mongolia. There's this route, right? And so there's things happening that sometimes we just don't talk about. By the way, I don't know if you can see this. Here, it basically is the Pony app.
 
 Tu Le 
 Welcome.
 
 Lei Xing 
 They recently had an accident of a robot taxi. And this app, yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 So let's rewind that. Let's
 
 rewind that. there was no one in the car. It was in Yiduang. So it was probably right around the area that you were at this morning. ‚Åì But my understanding is that they knew from headquarters that this car was unstable. And so they pulled it over to the side, I think. And that's when, right.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yes.
 
 We must know.
 
 was it was kind of in the median, not
 
 on the shoulder, but was in the median. So the app is showing basically temporarily ‚Åì not operating ‚Åì in Yizhuang So I'm not sure if that was due to that accident, ‚Åì that maybe they're directed not ‚Åì suspending operations. ‚Åì It was Alexis.
 
 Tu Le 
 And that vehicle was an Arc Fox?
 
 Alexis, okay.
 
 Lei Xing 
 They're
 
 using Lexus RX. So I thought that was interesting. And then, then WeRide, they started operating these RoboVans, the Farizon the Farizon Auto RoboVans, the kind of the, yeah, Farizon or whatever, you know.
 
 Tu Le 
 Okay, those are hmm. So.
 
 Verizon?
 
 Lei Xing 
 black kind of greenish vans, but there's only a few of them, so it's difficult to hail them. But the app actually shows you can try to hail a regular robotaxi or the robot van, which I think can seat five people.
 
 You know, next time you're here, try it.
 
 Tu Le 
 I will. So that's obviously a
 
 Lei Xing 
 There's just stuff happening, know, like these incidents on bottom. Yeah. Sure. Sure, what's happening now? No. No.
 
 Tu Le 
 Momenta has made huge announcements at the auto show. talked about that where they're, ‚Åì
 
 you know, what's interesting is that Toyota is a investor in Momenta, but it's also working with May Mobility. ‚Åì And so.
 
 Lei Xing 
 and ‚Åì Pony.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah. And you're seeing a lot of these partnerships. Uber is really instigating a lot of these partnerships, a non-US ‚Åì Robotexi partnership. So good for them. But we're going to see more bifurcating. We're seeing that, I want to say, was it WeRide that is
 
 Lei Xing 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le 
 going to do a Hong Kong listing because we didn't talk about this that much. so let's throw a curve ball and go back to this a little bit because Geely is pulling Zeekr off of the US ‚Åì stock market and moving it over to Hong Kong. And so, you know, I don't know if that's to protect for the exposure, but
 
 Lei Xing 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le 
 You know, you're also seeing, think it was WeRide that is looking to ‚Åì supplement, Hong Kong listing. No, no, sorry, it's Hesai Sorry, sorry, I thought it was WeRide, but it's Hesai. maybe that's kind of the financial world we're gonna start to live in as well, where in order to mitigate some of that risk and access to capital, these Chinese companies that have listed in the United States are gonna...
 
 create supplemental listings and markets outside of, or capital markets outside of ‚Åì American ones. So.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, CATL is soon will be doing the HK listing. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 Yes,
 
 well, and they're going to be the biggest IPO this year. For sure in Hong Kong, maybe in the world.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, so that's the AV part of it. It's kind of interesting. But the real, Baidu people told me, real experience is in Wuhan because Wuhan is basically all over the city. And you are actually in the traffic in Wuhan, which is notoriously ‚Åì bad. So that will be a different experience.
 
 Tu Le 
 I was going to go, you know, before we take off for these trips, I have all these ambitions to go to this city, that city, to go visit this, go try this out. And then of course, didn't have any opportunity to go to Wuhan. So I'd like to try the robotaxi in Wuhan because I know a few people who have and they were really impressed. So.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I do also, because
 
 we have the caveat, In Yizhuang mean, there's not that much traffic.
 
 Tu Le 
 And there's a lot more V2X in Yizhuang. So the Baidu vehicles are communicating with the traffic lights and everything else. So I think there's a lot more coordination from a technology standpoint. And to your point, these cars are doing this small little loop. Yizhuang is a district in Beijing, southeast Beijing. ‚Åì But it's not big.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 you.
 
 The ODD, I think, is 60 square kilometers. That might be the old number. It probably has expanded, but that's the number I knew. So 60 square kilometers. I'm not sure how much that is in miles. I don't know the conversion. But yeah, square kilometers.
 
 Tu Le 
 60 kilometers, it's like
 
 36 miles.
 
 Lei Xing 
 square miles it's square okay all right so i mean you kind of ish ish yeah
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah, yeah, something like that.
 
 ‚Åì Ish, ish, ish.
 
 But the reason they have Pony and Baidu or Apollo and Yizhuang is because that's the district specifically ‚Åì promoting robotaxi testing and pilots. That's where Baidu has their depot. So you and I have been there several times, seen a lot of their cars parked and then coming in and out.
 
 Lei Xing 
 The demo area, pilot area.
 
 Hollow Park.
 
 Tu Le 
 driverless robotax is coming in and out of the entrance. It's pretty cool to see, but again, to your point, it's not the busiest part of Beijing and traffic is always a little bit more tame, generally speaking. So.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, and it's
 
 interesting you open up the WeRide app, they do not offer discounts. So a similar ride will cost 30 RMB as opposed to 3 RMB.
 
 Tu Le 
 Hmm.
 
 Well, so the difference between a Baidu and a WeRide is that WeRide is publicly traded. So I think they have more pressure to show profitability than a Baidu does.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well, also Baidu seems to have lost that early mover advantage because now you've seen the WeRides and the Pony's expand making these moves outside of China.
 
 Tu Le 
 And
 
 let me clarify, Baidu is publicly traded, but Apollo Go has not been spun off into a separate publicly traded entity. And so I think that's where they have a bit more flexibility in funding from Daddy Baidu as opposed to WeRide. WeRide, I looked this morning, it's around $3 billion market cap. Pony is almost doubled that, about $6 billion market cap.
 
 Lei Xing 
 No. Right.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 But grand ambitions for sure. And if we get into the numbers, I think in China, there's over a thousand robotaxis on the roads now, ‚Åì probably less than 2000, but well over a thousand. Baidu being the lion's share in Wuhan, in Beijing, in Shanghai, and I think in Shenzhen.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Baidu
 
 ‚Åì is in several cities now. Probably a dozen cities now. Basically where they operate. Even in Chongqing. Cities like Chongqing. Special areas.
 
 Tu Le 
 Right.
 
 So anything else that you wanted to talk about?
 
 Lei Xing 
 What was the other?
 
 I think it was the third topic that was in your poster.
 
 Tu Le 
 So
 
 what's important is that I wanted to now shift, not shift the focus, but create additional focus on autonomous vehicles. so ‚Åì the beginning of my piece, and this is where I don't hide my subjectiveness. ‚Åì GM, Ford, are right in my backyard.
 
 Lei Xing 
 to the West.
 
 Right? Shift to your neck of woods. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 I'm an ex-GM, I'm a GM alum, I'm Ford alum. I have friends, you and I have good friends that work at both places in China and in the United States. And so like we want to see them do well. We want to see everybody do well. I don't think we have any vendettas against any companies, at least I don't, and I don't think you do either. We're not getting paid by any of them or I'm not getting paid and you're not getting paid. So I think that's important to.
 
 Lei Xing 
 No.
 
 Tu Le 
 to also
 
 note. So they hired, so in totality over the last few weeks, or let's even blow this out by the last 18 months, ‚Åì Kurt Kelty came in, they relaunched Mountain View ‚Åì Technical Center, hired a bunch of people there. They announced last week a new chemistry they're working on for batteries.
 
 LMR chemistry, stands for lithium manganese rich. So they're pulling cobalt and they're pulling nickel out, meaning that the price will be cheaper. Supply chains will be simpler. Manganese is very abundant as a mineral. And they're trying to get, they're trying to equalize the range and the capability of these batteries.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Magnetism.
 
 Tu Le 
 at least at the LFP level while reducing a pack at the pack between four and $6,000. Okay, so they look like they're gonna try to commercialize that in production vehicles by 2028 or something like that. so LG is their partner. It's gonna fall under the Ultium cell branding, you know, so kudos to them. know Ford is also working on ‚Åì
 
 an LMR type of cell or chemistry. then Sterling Anderson, which I'd mentioned earlier, co-founder of Aurora. He just left to become the chief product officer at General Motors. So what do you think of all these moves and does it give you more hope that GM is really, really trying to do the work to make this pivot?
 
 Lei Xing 
 Alright
 
 GM.
 
 It's not the first time that GM made these moves. yeah, right? It just, because we now have this frame of reference in the China world, in the China ‚Åì realm, you posted something on LinkedIn. I just replied, I said, way past, right? Of...
 
 Tu Le 
 See, you're the cynic now.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Why can't they use what's available now? And is it the geopoliticalness of it? Is it?
 
 It's just a different, totally different market environment. With the regulatory environment, with Trump, with what the consumers buy in the US, with the type of infrastructure, right? All of these factors that makes you think that they're not that pressed, unlike, let's say, a Volkswagen or Mercedes, a BMW in the Chinese market.
 
 they're pressed to compete whereas back home these GMs and Fords
 
 Tu Le 
 That's my biggest fear because they have seemingly less to lose in the China market than their German peers or European peers. And so will they stay motivated?
 
 to work as fast and as diligently as their European peers? I don't know.
 
 Lei Xing 
 At least the tariff pause that happened ‚Åì earlier this week. Thank goodness for now that we can put this behind a little bit and everybody's like.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah. Or two weeks ago, I think.
 
 But here's the thing, having just spoken with
 
 a ton of people this week back here, it's not that, I mean, the tariffs are bad enough, right, Lei? But it's the uncertainty of how long they're gonna be in place, whether he's gonna change his mind in a week. That's really crippling. Because if I tell you, Lei, you can't use the internet.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, exactly. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 then you'll be upset, but you'll find a way around. But if I tell you, you can't use the internet, Lei, and then you start planning for not being able to use the internet, and I say, Lei, it's okay, you can use the internet now. A week later.
 
 Lei Xing 
 speaker.
 
 Speaking of the internet, was just switching to a new one that China Mobile offers that if you pay 30 RMB or more, you get a huge bump on the speed and guess what the hardware they're using for the routers. Bingo.
 
 Tu Le 
 Well, nice.
 
 Huawei
 
 Lei Xing 
 So I just switched to this new Wi-Fi. So I think it's better than earlier. And now it's showing 72 % uploaded, which is great. Last time we got out, was 30%. So it's not much, right? 30, I have to commit for like three years, but 30 RMB a month is nothing.
 
 Tu Le 
 That doesn't surprise. That's not surprising. nice, because less 30 something, right? Yeah, so.
 
 ‚Åì my goodness. anyways, I...
 
 Don't really have anything else this week. Do we want to talk about anything? ‚Åì so I had an opportunity to sit down with our good friends, Paul Leinert, Joe White, and Nori ‚Åì this week. For those that don't know, you know this more than I do. I just know the journalists recently, but over the course of the 20 years, maybe you can talk about a few more journalists that.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, I thought so.
 
 I've met them over the years on various occasions. Nori was in China for long time.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yes, that's
 
 how I met him. so for those folks, Joe White ‚Åì is retired. Paul Leinert is retired. Their last jobs were at Reuters. ‚Åì Joe White is Pulitzer Prize winning journalist in the automotive space. I think he was the Detroit bureau chief for Detroit for a while, for Wall Street Journal. Paul Leinert is also legendary in automotive journalism. Nori is still...
 
 Lei Xing 
 Reuters.
 
 Yep,
 
 yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 ‚Åì still grinding away in Austin, Texas. He moved, as you said, from China, Beijing, to Austin about two and a half years ago. He is almost solely focused on more of Reuter's long reads. for as much knowledge as they have, I totally respect their curiosity still.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, in depth.
 
 Tu Le 
 And why I get along with them is because there was no pretense. It was like, man, you're a nerd. And I didn't need to prove anything. I didn't need to prove anything to them. I have this unique view because of my experiences. so there was always on day one, a kind of mutual respect. And so that's why.
 
 And I'm friends with them personally. And so I got to talk with them, trading some rumors, downloaded with them a little bit about my thoughts on Shanghai and some of the things that I'd heard, but I don't want to write about because they're more rumors than anything. ‚Åì yeah, so that was cool seeing them. know, Nori was up in Michigan to go do some site visits, but also like...
 
 Lei Xing 
 And that's
 
 Tu Le 
 want to see the dentist or something like that. now who else, who else that you've worked with or know that people should read or keep an eye on if there's articles from them? Because I know, you know, Mike Colias just moved from Wall Street Journal to Reuters in Detroit. So the Reuters team is just is and was pretty strong. So.
 
 Lei Xing 
 ‚Åì okay.
 
 Pretty strong.
 
 I well, I mean, we know the people down here that we did a recording with, right? Ed and those type of people.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yes, that's
 
 in process by the way, Lei. So
 
 Lei Xing 
 I
 
 didn't mean to, you know, as I was away.
 
 Tu Le 
 No, it's it's it's
 
 it's in process. It's out of my hands now, which means that I should get it within the next couple of days and
 
 Lei Xing 
 Hope the quality is okay. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 So I'm hoping so the audio quality is pretty good the video quality was a little bit weird ‚Åì But I'm hoping we can launch it by Wednesday or Thursday of next week now Remember there was three videos five audio. ‚Åì The videos themselves were ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing 
 that'd be nice.
 
 How many gigs of fire was there?
 
 Tu Le 
 20 gigs each, because they were two hours long.
 
 And we'll edit it, we'll edit it down and it'll still be probably an hour and 40 minutes. And so we might need to do a CEM Max Roundtable part one, part two. But we didn't talk much about the auto show at all. I was kind of going through a little bit of that. And so.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I know, because you talk a lot.
 
 reports.
 
 Well,
 
 I think that maybe was the point. Just to talk about what's on their minds. think that that was the important thing. Rather than auto show, we had our own recap.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah.
 
 I'm excited to show it off and also our CEM episode that we recorded inside the ET5 that should be posted in the next couple of days as well.
 
 Lei Xing 
 All right. That was a good talk
 
 about the experience.
 
 Tu Le 
 My insomnia or my jet lag Lei allowed me to be productive at three o'clock in the morning. So, ugh.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah. so
 
 a few things from me is I checked out the new ES6 in the dealer. I had a test ride and drive in ‚Åì the 2025 G6. And I drove the L6 Max, the Smart Refresh Max. And I posted a video of seven minute urban NOA. Boy, I am impressed. And having done this RT6 today,
 
 Really, the only difference between a Li Auto L6 Max versus a Robotaxi is that you are responsible rather than the Robotaxi is responsible. There's no... Yeah, it is important, but other than that, there's not much difference. I mean, that's how incredible it is that things are in the assisted L2++ driving space.
 
 Tu Le 
 Well, I think that's important. I mean, that's a...
 
 Plus plus plus.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, and hence going back earlier that NIO they showed some new features of this new world model where ‚Åì Now you have the capability of automatically going through the ETC lanes point-to-point Which is not available on an NOP plus that we had on the T5, but you know by Maybe I don't know not not sure if in July they'll have this OTA update, but
 
 That's where the competition is.
 
 Tu Le 
 I'm looking forward to Li Auto was one of the companies I did. I didn't ignore them, but ‚Åì they were not a priority. wasn't ‚Åì any new products from them.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Because where I live,
 
 there's this mall, right? This Xiangyuan Xiaozhen. And there's Tesla, there's Onvo there's NIO, there's Li Auto, there's Xpeng.
 
 I just go there, go to the dealership and say, I want to test drive and put my consumer hat on. And I'm like, oh, you don't have to tell me what the features are, I know.
 
 Tu Le 
 The Li Auto, man.
 
 The Li Auto, I really like the interiors of the Li Auto. The finish is really, really good. ‚Åì And the seats were more substantial, so your butt probably not hurting. Maybe we get the Li Auto, man, and drive around that for a few days.
 
 Lei Xing 
 It was, L6, mean, for that price range. ‚Åì
 
 Yeah, that was more comfortable.
 
 On
 
 the auto, it's not a pure EV, as some examples say. But it's still, it's still, yeah.
 
 Tu Le 
 Right, right, right. Well, I mean, we can take it as far as we can.
 
 So, hey, there are some questions and comments. First of all, Jeffrey, hello. He says hi to us. So saying hi back to Jeffrey. He does have a question. I'm going to let you answer it. Any opinion? Because you are much more active on Chinese social than I am. Any opinion on the continuous crashing by owners of the SU7?
 
 Lei Xing 
 good.
 
 Tu Le 
 It seems my entire WeChat feed is one crash after another, even causing owners to protest rising insurance costs.
 
 Lei Xing 
 That was the thing I was kind of alluding to. It's not one thing that's the backlash. It's multiple things happening at the same time. And that's why I said it's kind of Xiaomi's in dark place. You know, is it?
 
 educational, it too much trustworthiness of the system? If we're talking about the Ultra, they did have this limiting OTA, where they kind of limited the speed or something. I remember that was pushed out to where I think some of these newer owners, EV owners,
 
 Tu Le 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Lei Xing 
 How do you respect being a driver of a of an EV that if you're completely a new driver, a new owner of an EV, and you buy a  Xiaomi, sometimes that could be the reason. But there does seem to be more and more negativity.
 
 Tu Le 
 Well, people are just piling on. That's what I'm seeing.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 and you can't give somebody something and then all of a sudden take it away.
 
 But we're just seeing Xiaomi grow up in real time by the lessons that are being created from these challenges that ‚Åì are being put in front of them. And so they have to go through some of these things on their own in order to really have it be deeply understood amongst the team.
 
 Lei Xing 
 that.
 
 And that also shows the other side of the competition is how tough the consumers can be and how they can become a kind of force against you.
 
 almost, right? Of, we're your fans, we demand, right? Yeah. But then, very tough on you. And that's what has happened.
 
 Tu Le 
 Well, that's the whole thing. It goes both ways. It goes both ways. They can be.
 
 So
 
 that's kind of the momentum part of it because they can amplify the positive so much, but they can also amplify the negative in a significant way. And social media in China is much more ubiquitous amongst the young people, which are the consumers, which are the target market. In the United States,
 
 Lei Xing 
 So can I do the negative?
 
 Tu Le 
 We have the TikToks, we have these other things, but they're not as ubiquitous as, ‚Åì you know, not many, I won't say not many, because that's going to show my age. But people my age aren't on TikTok in the United States really trying to...
 
 message about branding, whereas in China, if you're on Douyin, if you're Xiaohongshu, then you're really, really seeing a lot of news via these social media feeds.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Anything else?
 
 Tu Le 
 SSJJ005 has a comment, the new end-to-end NIO world model that is going to be fully launched by June is pretty important, not only for NIO, but the whole Chinese EV industry. ‚Åì Yeah, I would agree with that. ‚Åì He also writes,
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, mean,
 
 it's these newer features of assisted driving. was this, what they showed was this emergency pullover feature. They showed this rear collision monitoring feature where if the car senses a rear collision happening, they will actually make the vehicles, ‚Åì the braking of the vehicle to help you with the. ‚Åì
 
 What's the word? Whiplash. These type of things are...
 
 Tu Le 
 Whiplash
 
 Lei Xing 
 But again, Li Bin wants to show that we're committed to putting on these technologies.
 
 Tu Le 
 Effectively, just blanket statement that the company is very thoughtful on launching new features and are very user focused in how they might benefit or prevent the users from harm. And he or she also writes, think not much people realize the significance of the NIO world model and the mass production, which already has started for Shenqi NX9031.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah.
 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Well, I think it's significant, but NIO is not exclusive. We're seeing the auto talk about this. This is another feature that the auto showed in the AI talk was you could literally in it's called the driver, means the driver large model, which means in an urban NOA or when an NOA is active.
 
 You can voice, tell it where to go. Let's say, please make a U-turn at the upcoming traffic light. And it'll do it. These are the things that Li Auto is doing. That's part of their model. And NIO has its own model. XPeng has its own model, right? I'm sure Xiaomi will have. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 And we can talk about the NIO world model because he or she also writes, get you two are frustrated with NIO's number, but really L60 is the only issue here. NIO is currently at over 40 % in premium EV segment, 50 % in premium SUV EV segment.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well,
 
 at the very beginning they showed a great number of ‚Åì the RMB 300,000 and above BEVs. NIO has half the market. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah.
 
 But
 
 unfortunately, if you did a heat map on that product, I would venture to guess 50 % of that is in Shanghai
 
 Lei Xing 
 Well, 100,000 units out of 700,000 or more. So that's a significant.
 
 Tu Le 
 You know, right. Yeah, so.
 
 So,
 
 and I think they're right. know, we're not.
 
 separating NIO and comparing them to the premium segment per se. But at the end of the day, they can't still be at 300 or 350,000 units in 2025. It's just their capital costs are much higher. They really need the mass market Firefly and Onvo to be successes. That's gonna create a lot more flexibility for the NIO brand.
 
 ‚Åì He or she has an opinion. I really think they messed up with how they launched the L60 separately to NIO. Very stupid decision. NIO took five years to build up their brand awareness and yet NIO still lacks brand awareness versus Xiaomi, Huawei and Tesla. I actually think that the brand awareness is, yeah, I think the brand awareness is right there. So I think you and I don't believe that. They thought Onvo could do well without NIO's presence.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I'm not sure if I agree with that.
 
 ‚Åì I think just...
 
 Tu Le 
 It is a good decision to fire the CEO and now they are trying to establish Onvo by NIO Now the L60 number has started to kick back up Surprisingly for the first time and last week L60 outsold Zeekr 7x Luxeed R7, Xpeng G6 and Tesla Model Y even though Model Y has their own reason for the low number last week, so
 
 Lei Xing 
 What was the term that you always use, Monday night quarterback? what was it? Monday morning quarterback. ‚Åì Right? think that's.
 
 Tu Le 
 Monday morning quarterbacking.
 
 Yeah. So basically,
 
 now that means you see the results and then you come up with the reasons why it was as opposed to predicting what the problem is, right? So you analyze the problem after the fact.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, that's
 
 the thing. think another way to put it is building the plane while you fly, right?
 
 I think that's what's happening for all of these brands, startups.
 
 Tu Le 
 ‚Åì
 
 yeah, for sure. And
 
 remember the market is evolving. the market is very dynamic. So it's not static. There's new players, new products, new features, new technology, new innovation. And then add that to the fact that NIO is going to be in 25, 30 countries this year. XPeng is going to be in over 40. BYD is already in hundred countries. And so the changes...
 
 that the management team have to take into consideration and the evolution of the sector as it matures, as they build awareness in other markets. It's a very, very complex animal that any great management team would have a challenge staying on top of. And so to me, that's why it's still so impressive that BYD has been able to accomplish what they have. So, Lei, I'm moving over to LinkedIn. There's a couple of comments here.
 
 Hello, know this is from David Crozzoli. We know China has an impressive automotive industry, an important partner for the future. How to get in contact with top manufacturers and he kind of, so he's just, this is like business development, dude. Only thing I miss in NIO is Android Auto. That's from Adam Broewskox and...
 
 Lei Xing 
 Okay.
 
 Speaking of the
 
 CarPlay Ultra on the Aston Martin, right? That made some waves.
 
 Tu Le 
 Yeah, that's a
 
 that was a social media post. That was a feature. Huawei cow.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah,
 
 it's like you buy an Aston Martin and you get the free ultra carplay, right?
 
 Tu Le 
 Oh, geez. OK, Rafael Galvao says hello from Brazil. Hey, Rafael, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening in. Now, that's all of the comments, Lei. And I know it's getting late for you. So I am your Internet is faster. So congratulations, Gong Xi on that. then it's that Huawei router, that Huawei router.
 
 Lei Xing 
 I'm not too late.
 
 94 % uploaded. That means that the 30 renminbi uploaded. Yeah, probably
 
 a lot of.
 
 Tu Le 
 So anyways, everyone, thank you for joining us as always. I actually thought this was going to be like a 40 minute ‚Åì episode. Yeah, so my apologies again for the technical difficulties that I had on my end and appreciate your patience for ‚Åì waiting 10 minutes, 12 minutes, however long it took for me to get powered up. But we will see you all. You might not be able to do the show next week.
 
 Lei Xing 
 It never is.
 
 Yeah, well next week we
 
 I'm on the road so we might have to do Thursday night my time I think it's the only time I have
 
 Tu Le 
 Okay, so.
 
 For those that are ‚Åì following on, please check our socials because I'll try to update everything or we'll try to update everything on our timing because we still plan on doing a live show just not at 9 a.m. Eastern time on Friday next week. So stay tuned ‚Åì for the new timing and it'll only hopefully be for this show or the next two weeks. But good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you all next week.
 
 Lei Xing 
 Yeah, good night from my side. Bye bye.