Episode #216 - 🔥 NEVs Outsell ICE in China, NIO’s Onvo L90, Li Auto i8, Tesla Model Y L & Xiaomi’s Big Push

In this episode, Tu Le and Lei Xing dive deep into:

✅ China’s EV Inflection Point – NEVs now account for over 60% of new car sales in China. What does this mean for global automakers?

✅ NIO’s Onvo L90 Launch – Priced under RMB 200K, this family-sized SUV is positioned to challenge Tesla and Li Auto head-on.

✅ Li Auto i8 vs. NIO Onvo L90 vs. Tesla Model Y L – Which wins the battle for China’s most competitive segment?

✅ BYD Strategy Shift – From aggressive pricing to premium branding and new models.

✅ Xiaomi’s EV Momentum – SU7 success and what’s next with YU7 and YU9.

✅ Foreign OEM Response – Buick Electra series, Ford’s electric Bronco concept, and BMW’s China strategy.

✅ Smart Driving & ADAS – Why Nvidia, Huawei, and Momenta dominate the conversation in intelligent driving.

✅ Robotaxi & Autonomy Race – Tesla, Waymo, Pony.ai, and Lucid’s Uber tie-up—who’s ahead?

✅ Policy & Trade – How China’s anti-price-war directive and U.S. tariffs on graphite could disrupt supply chains.

Companies Mentioned in This Episode

• Chinese Automakers & Tech: BYD, NIO (Onvo), Li Auto, XPeng, Xiaomi, Leapmotor, Aito (Huawei), Zeekr, IM Motors, Firefly
• Global Automakers: Tesla, Buick (GM), BMW, Ford
• Tech & Mobility: Nvidia, Huawei, Momenta, Waymo, Uber, Nuro
• Others: Lucid Motors, Rivian, Magna, Pony.ai

👉 Subscribe now for expert analysis on EVs, mobility tech, and the companies shaping the future of transportation.

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• 14:19 (Cont.) Episode #216 - 🔥 NEVs Outsell ICE in China, NIO’s Onvo L90, Li Auto i8, Tesla Model Y L & Xiaomi’s Big Push

Transcript

Tu Le 

Welcome to the China EVs and More podcast. The next hour or so, my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV and mobility sectors. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome.

loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. We ask that you smash those subscribe and like buttons so you don't miss anything from us in the future. Lei and I are two of the most knowledgeable people in the world doing this. So help us get the word out about the show to others. My name is Tu Le I am the managing director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter.

that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for that at sinoautoinsights.substack.com, which of course, I encourage you all to do. ‚Åì Back in Beijing, Lei, can you please introduce yourself?

Lei Xing 

Yes sir, good morning and good evening from my side. This is your co-host Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. This is episode number 216. We're talking about the weather. Sizzling, sizzling hot.

A few points. Jensen Huang was in Beijing this past week. Fireworks on the

six-seat three-row SUVs that came out like one after the other and Waymo, Uber, Tesla are added in a robotaxi space on the other side of the world where you are.

‚Åì So it's never a dull day or moment. I got to check out some of the newest and the latest. I got to check out the YU7 ‚Åì I was going to check out the i8 because they arrived in stores today, but I'll do that tomorrow. ‚Åì These products, right? ‚Åì Just relentless. Just keep coming after.

Tu Le 

Well, let's go over again,

Lei. Let's go over again, Lei, really quickly. The YU7 came out about three weeks ago, correct? And the L90, the Onvo L90 also started delivery. The Li Auto I6, i8, which are battery electric vehicles, Li Auto is known. ‚Åì

Lei Xing 

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tu Le 

historically as being an EREV company with the exception of one MPV called the Mega, which is a little bit more expensive, 800,000, although it's cheaper now. 800,000 RMB is over $100,000 for an MPV in China, is premium. And then what am I missing? I think there was a...

Lei Xing 

You're...

Well, we both missed maybe the biggest wild card.

Tu Le 

The G7.

Lei Xing 

which is the Model Y L.

Tu Le 

The three row Model Y L.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, it kind of crashed the party, It's like, we'll see in the fall. That's the title of their ‚Åì push, ‚Åì Model Y L, we'll see in the fall. And then...

Tu Le 

And then there's a standard

range, longer range, standard range, Model 3.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, so I think it's kind of like, Onvo L90 by the way, I was in Chong Li for a test drive. That was interesting. It's big in every sense of the word, we talked about it being a crucial product for a new group this year. A lot of potential. And then,

Somehow, that one day, a slew of these three-row 60 pure fully electric SUVs were announced. i8 Model Y L, new Aito M8, and the IML S9. And I'm hearing even...

Tu Le 

So is the L8 an EREV?

Lei Xing 

The which one?

Tu Le 

The L8 from Aito, that's an EREV

Lei Xing 

The M8, it comes in both EREVs and fully electric. So we're talking about the fully electric three-row six-seaters SUVs, which until now, I think it's been the plugins and the EREVs. And suddenly, seems to be, in Li Bin's words,

Tu Le 

I'm M8, sorry. I'm getting all confused with letters.

Okay.

Lei Xing 

that he's trying to transition that or change that landscape with the L90 and then the i8 and then the other ones that are coming.

Tu Le 

So mostly all,

I won't say mostly, many of the Chinese EV makers that you and I talk about now offer both an EREV and a BEV version of vehicles in their product lineup, with the exception of NIO.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, I think NIO is, well, NIO and Tesla may be the only ones that are not going toward the EREV route. Xiaomi is coming out with the YU9. ‚Åì XPeng is coming out with a bigger EREV SUV later this year. But there seems to be this hope, at ‚Åì least for the Onvo L90.

Tu Le 

and Tesla.

Lei Xing 

I think the reason I'm calling it big is not only it's big for NIO but it's big in that it's trying to be one of the first to break away from this hold of these plugins and the, the EREV SUVs, the Li Auto L series, right? The Aitos that have been on the market. That's the interesting kind of the ‚Åì side race that we're seeing.

Tu Le 

let me ask you this, I'll be seeing you in Beijing in about 12 days, 11 days. But now that you have a chance to relax a little bit, because last time we were in Beijing, Shanghai, we were moving around a lot and not able to relax at all.

Lei Xing 

emerging.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tu Le 

What are the brands you're seeing the most outside of BYD in Beijing?

Lei Xing 

Well, again, it seems I told you about Xi'an, Tesla everywhere. Same in Beijing, Li Autos, a lot of Li Autos. I'm starting to... Yeah, a lot of Leap Motors And I'm starting to see more Onvos on the roads. And here and there, I saw a couple of Fireflies, but still very niche.

Tu Le 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Which would make sense because Li Otto is in Beijing.

Okay.

Lei Xing 

to nearly non-existent, at least in my area. Maybe there more, but ‚Åì yeah, that's...

Tu Le 

I really like

the Firefly. I would think it would be popular but maybe not against the Leap Motor or BYD vehicle.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, it's definitely not as popular as, know, in terms of seeing them on the streets. ‚Åì And then, yeah, that's, you know, still these big name brands that I see the most.

Tu Le 

How's the event?

Lei Xing 

So you're talking about the Onvo? Yeah, mean, it's, there's a, yeah.

Tu Le 

So hold on, let's push rewind. When

was it? Where was it at? Was it a big event, small event?

Lei Xing 

So

I can talk about it because most of the pictures, specs have been released. ‚Åì not my custom video. I'm technically under embargo. So what I can say is. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

So you're technically under embargo?

Okay.

Lei Xing 

L90 is ready for delivery.

I feel like the industry and the media are kind of pulling for NIO because most of the ‚Åì press have been impressed with the positioning. Because if you think about it, this vehicle at under 200,000 RMB is better deal compared to let's say a XPeng G9, which is a five seater and priced more expensive.

And I just think it's, it's, NIO is due. Like we said last episode that this, I see no reason why it can't do well. And it's got the mover advantage because it's set the price so low. The i8 is at 350 to 400,000. At least that's what they're saying.

much more expensive. And then the other, right?

Tu Le 

This at a time where

the central government is really clamping down and browbeating provincial leadership on allowing price wars and things like that going on. The central government is really, really taking a stand, it seems, to try to stem this price war.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, so there's been some meetings, there's been some directives that come out the last few days, I think. ‚Åì don't see, we kind of, since I've been here, right, it's been tempered down a little bit. ‚Åì There's still price movement, but. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

Remember, we're in the middle of summer,

so there's not going to be a lot of aggressive moves, with the exception of surprising move from BYD in April, slashing prices on 20 of their 20-something products.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and then recently, He Xiaopeng actually showed that they were actually executing this agreement with suppliers. That's actually day, right? So.

Tu Le 

And the other

thing that we should emphasize is that you're starting to see on social less about price because every post used to be about price cuts or non price cut price cuts. Now it's about features. It correlates with a bunch of companies launching new vehicles, but also it's like, hey, you know, lifestyle. These are the features. These are the things that you can do in this car. So maybe.

That's their way of trying to differentiate themselves in the market a bit.

Lei Xing 

‚Åì

Yeah, for example, I'm hearing from the media that attended the Onvo event. They were talking about the i8 and they said that there have been some stationary, ‚Åì what do call it, previews for the media. And I'm hearing that they're saying this I series vehicles, the fit and finish are some of the softest, even more softer than the L and the mega.

in terms of seating comfort, I think in a good way. It's definitely different than the YU7, which I sat in. It's a little bit different. And I mean, the features, the seating arrangements, are exactly the same as the L90. But it's not swappable. It's price higher.

Tu Le 

in a good way or in a bad way? Okay.

But here's the debate, Lei, and let's have this conversation real quick. Let's have this talk real quick.

early on up until now, everything's about copying. know, XPeng did this three months ago, so we're going to have this feature and maybe the seats kind of feel the same. The design, interior design is different, but not much different. And maybe this is where they're really starting to put effort into brand and differentiation. And so that's kind of the evolution.

We let's get out of this price war where the only thing you care about, you don't care about my brand. You care about the latest features at the lowest price. And in order to get out of the price war, we have to really lean into how we're better, how we're different from a brand and represent the brand in a significant way, in a consistent way. So maybe that seat is kind of this, this indication that these companies are really trying to separate themselves from a, from a positioning standpoint in the market.

Lei Xing 

Okay.

And you see that from the social media of the CEOs, right? So Li Xiang was talking about whether they want to do a three hour long launch for the i8. Li Bin did a three hour pre-launch for the L90. Lei Jun talked extensively for the YU7. ‚Åì And the pricing wise, you know, it's a different strategy, tactics.

Tu Le 

Xiaomi's are pretty long.

Lei Xing 

But I think at least for Onvo L90 they threw down the gauntlet by having the best BAAS price below 200,000 maybe. Yeah, that's

Tu Le 

That is, I saw

that and I thought that was a typo. That's amazingly aggressive, amazingly aggressive.

Lei Xing 

Yeah,

for a three row, ‚Åì know, I sat in the three row, it's actually quite comfy, you know.

Tu Le 

So

let me ask you this, Tang L or L90?

Lei Xing 

Oh, I mean, you're putting me on a spot because I just came back from this.

Tu Le 

Because the

⁓ price is差不多.

Lei Xing 

Yeah,

I'd probably go with the L90. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

Okay. Now is that

based on features, looks? know, because I know we have limited time with L90 and the Tang L, so just kind of off the top.

Lei Xing 

I think that the...

Yeah.

I think it's the right handling and the comfort and the space of it ‚Åì for families. think that currently this family segment seems to be taking off a little bit, especially the three row, fully electric.

Tu Le 

Hmm.

Well, at 200,000

RMB, there's a ton of value there.

Lei Xing 

What can you get in the US for 200,000 RMB? $30,000. You can't. There's no Model even priced below $30,000 RMB.

Tu Le 

It's

less than that with the exchange. It's less than that. It's like 27,000, I think.

That's unbelievable.

Lei Xing 

The unbelievable part of it is, I think mentioning Jensen Huang being here. I think he was talking with the real, at least, yeah, I think at least third time. He mentioned something about one company comes out with something less than 24 hours later, somebody else will have the same thing. That's what he told Ren Hongbin, which is the chairman of the CCPID.

Tu Le 

Is this his third time this year?

Lei Xing 

And then, right, you saw the videos, all the videos of him praising Chinese electric vehicles.

Tu Le 

Where was he at?

Lei Xing 

He was at this media event ‚Åì somewhere in like a courtyard.

Tu Le 

Was it in ‚Åì Summer Palace? Okay.

Lei Xing 

Somewhere in Beijing.

I don't know, but somewhere in Beijing and then.

Tu Le 

They said he was out there for over an hour answering questions.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, yeah, I mean he had the black t-shirt right he took off the jacket because it was too hot

Tu Le 

I didn't know... ‚Åì

Lei Xing 

He tried to deliver at least part of the opening speech of the supply chain expo in Chinese. And he was like, I'm not going to torture you anymore. I'm going to go back to English. Yeah, he was speaking Chinese. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, he has all the interests in the EVs, right?

Tu Le 

so his- okay for some reason I thought he was fluent so-

He is in full sales mode. He's in full, let's say advocacy mode because he's battling Washington DC. First of all, second of all, he knows NIO's on his heels, XPeng's on his heels, Huawei's on his heels because they want to replace the Orin slash Thor chip. And it's going to happen. He just wants to slow that down. And I think he's trying to show

Lei Xing 

I think.

Tu Le 

Nvidia's commitment to the China market.

So, but a lot of that stuff is out of a lot of his, a lot of those factors are out of his hands.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

I think he's played the part of diplomacy, maybe we call it the AI diplomacy or chip diplomacy more so than Elon Musk, because we thought Elon Musk would be kind of the guy in the middle, right? Now Jensen has become the guy in the middle. And look at the stock price, right? They just passed the four trillion mark. I think they're probably going get to five trillion ‚Åì sometime.

Tu Le 

I don't want to say

that Elon has given up on the China market, but it seems like he's committed to the Western markets, convincing the Western markets that Tesla is now an AI and robot taxi.

Lei Xing 

If you look at the top 10, we saw the top 10 first half, the leading NEV models. Tesla Model Y was the only, I think was the only foreign brand on that list, top 10. And by this time next year,

It might still have a chance to be in the top 10. I don't know whether you agree with me or not, somehow both Tesla and Xiaomi just has that aura. Because when they announce something, the competitors will take a look at it. Even Le Xiang and Li Bin, they retweeted on Weibo. Humble bragging.

That's a word that I learned from you ‚Åì saying, you know, this is respectable move by Tesla. ‚Åì I think you would get a deal, good deal with it. But if you want a five seater, wait for the i6, right? They're kind of like that, you know? But I think they recognize and respect Tesla. Yeah, yeah. But at least.

Tu Le 

It's like a backhanded compliment.

Good job,

but I'm better.

Lei Xing 

Go ahead.

Tu Le 

No, I'm saying it's like saying good job, but we're better.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, I mean, we're better, basically, without saying we're better.

‚Åì February.

Tu Le 

And

this on the backdrop, ‚Åì let's see here. a preza and I'd written this in my newsletter as well that for the first six months, NEVs outsold ICE vehicles in China for the first time. So that pendulum has swung. And then you look at.

the graphite restrictions and the tariffs that are now on Chinese graphite into the United States. as.

Elon is struggling to really gain any footing for Tesla in the United States because now let's list the ways charging infrastructure subsidies or investment from the U S government will be canceled. September 30th, $7,500 purchase subsidy gone. Now.

Lei Xing 

in September.

Tu Le 

And Tesla, because they're the only dedicated BEV maker besides a Rivian and a Lucid, who let's not even talk about because their volumes are so low.

their graphite costs are going to double because the tariff is 93.7 or 93 and a half percent. So effectively doubling graphite and the graphite is about 8 % of a battery's cost or something like that. I think I was reading that. So

Tesla's gonna need a hug in the United States, Lei big time. this on the heels of GM and Ford talking about building cells in Tennessee, LFP cells in Tennessee, and then the LMR coming in 27. And everything in the United States is pointing to we don't want.

Lei Xing 

Yeah

Tu Le 

clean energy vehicles. At least the government is saying that.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

I thought you were going to the four Bronco EV and yeah.

Tu Le 

Well, we will circle back on that, but I was just talking about US for US.

But I also talked to her. I so posted that because Buick. Let's talk about it then. So Buick. Announced that they were going to launch six new vehicles, any of these into the China market. They've now shown off two of them. One of them was the Electra E5 in.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

Tu Le 

They just launched this week ‚Åì a large sedan, which is about the size of a Model S. And it's an EREV.

Lei Xing 

the new sub-brand, Electra.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Tu Le 

And so Buick doesn't have any EREVs in the United States, by the way. They don't have any. BEVs either. So.

Four more coming from Buick this year and the E7, was it called the E7? ‚Åì It's gonna be less than 300,000 RMB. So that'll compete, which are the large sedans So it'll compete against the NIOs and things like that. ‚Åì

Lei Xing 

ET7s yeah.

I mean, it was kind of, yeah, it's a dance.

Tu Le 

Then Ford announced that it's launching a BEV version of the Bronco and Bronco Sport. But if you look at the pictures from, they submitted to MIIT, the Bronco, the electric Bronco looks a little bit different than the ICE Bronco. So I don't know if that's on purpose or they had to do it because of

Lei Xing 

Mm-hmm.

Tu Le 

the powertrain change, but what do you think?

Lei Xing 

I think it's actually in this sub-segment of this box kind of off-roady, which has also become popular. And so I think it's a tactical move kind of the Mustang Mach-E is long forgotten, right? I mean, it was a huge thing back in 2021, but it never got anywhere. So I think they're trying to build on the Bronco IP and the boxy

segment. I think which is smarter things to do but and both of these

Tu Le 

And we may have talked about this

Lei offline, not on the show, but at Shanghai Auto, that was pretty much the only thing that the Chinese consumers wanted to look at, the Bronco at the Ford booth. They weren't really looking at anything else at the Ford booth except the Bronco.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. ‚Åì

Yeah, both, I'm hearing both. We should talk about Momenta again, because Momenta ‚Åì got that new deal with BMW, right? ‚Åì These things will probably have some sort of Chinese tech on ADAS. It could be Momenta, it could be somebody else, ‚Åì right, that we know because GM is an investor, right?

Tu Le 

BMW.

Buick is using Momenta.

300 million in 2021.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. And now both BMW and the upcoming CLA will have Momenta in the Chinese market at least. And now it is choosing Huawei. So it seems to be a secret sauce for hopefully success, but we'll see.

Tu Le 

Here's the key, Lei. You know, I mentioned last week that I hope foreign OEM leadership management were watching the YU7 launch, taking notes. And this is also to me a canary in the coal mine that the foreign automakers, not only because they have to, because there's restrictions, but because they can't do it in the time frame necessary.

put a product, a competitive product in the China market. So you look at Volkswagen, you look at Stellantis and and GM had made the investment a while ago. So that was kind of planned, but now we're starting to see the vehicles that are using Momentum technology. So all of these foreign entities in China are buying, you know, there's the make, there's the buy. So in order to put products,

Lei Xing 

Mm-hmm.

Tu Le 

in this year and next year, they have to buy that technology and then ram it in, you know, cram it into their products. I feel in the United States that they're going to need to buy as well. You know, the urgency isn't as much, but connected vehicles because every new vehicle in China has virtually L2 plus. So these are the things that will bleed over into

‚Åì products in Europe and the United States or North America.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and we have the other ones, ‚Åì Tesla announced the Model Y L, and then immediately, AITO came out with a similar title. See you in the fall, the S9T, the Shangjie, which is the fifth ‚Åì under the HIMA with SAIC motor. It's like, you in the fall. See you in September.

Tu Le 

Mmm.

Lei Xing 

And then at the end of this month, the i8 launches, the Onvo L90 launches, delivery start, and then the fall, September-ish, the Model Y L. It'll be interesting to see how that does or how that add or support the Model Y volume. Because I think a lot of people don't believe that third row.

given the little bit stretch on the end. To me, I've never really liked three-row SUVs anyways.

But the Y L, mean that L is right, put a grain of salt on a L. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

So for those

wondering, the Model Y and the Model Y L, the difference is around eight inches. And they're gonna add a third row to that. And it's effectively putting that third row where the trunk is, in the current trunk.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, think space seems

to be the space is a big selling point these days, especially on the L90. And it's got class leading wheelbase among all of these that we mentioned.

Tu Le 

So typically in vehicle design, the reason you bring that up, like longer wheelbase means more space because if you're pushing out to the ends, pushing the tires out to the edges of the vehicle, number one, you have a bit more stability when you're driving and steering. And then it just creates more space inside the vehicle for the passengers, generally speaking, because 20 years ago,

When I sat in the back seat when my dad was driving, you know, the door had the curve because that's where the rear wheel well was. Now in the passenger seat, there's no wheel well. And so we have these spaces.

Lei Xing 

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, nostalgic. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

So we talked

about the graphite, we talked about the L90 a bit, we've talked about all these crossover SUVs. What else should we talk about? We talked about the Bronco.

Lei Xing 

a robot taxi on your

part of the world. That was interesting because Tesla showed a picture that we don't have to go into detail. But people who know about it know what I'm talking about. And then Waymo came right back and says, take that. I got a bigger area. And then Tesla will probably come back and say, you know.

Tu Le 

So for those wondering and are on X, Elon had posted a

derogatory, it was a picture of Tesla's area that the service area for their robo taxi and it was in the shape of ‚Åì something. so, you know, the other thing that we should talk about from a robo taxi standpoint and I

Lei Xing 

Service area.

Yeah.

Tu Le 

texted our good friend Nick Twork. Lucid, Uber, and Nuro.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, that was kind of surprising a bit.

Yeah.

Tu Le 

So 300 million investment, 20, was it 20,000?

Lei Xing 

20,000 over six years.

Tu Le 

Yeah, so for the Gravity and they had an actual picture of a Gravity with the LIDAR and the cameras on it. I think that's big. Uber is really trying to be the picks and shovels guys. They want to work with everybody and they're moving aggressively globally.

And let's emphasize that because they also have partnerships that WeRide Pony, Wayve, which is a UK robot taxi company. So it's not like they're favoring American companies.

So I think that was big. Whether it's more symbolic, we'll have to see whether or not the baby Gravity gets any volume because I will like Rivian and Lucid's chances a lot better when they're at 20, 30, 40,000 units a month.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and then ‚Åì Uber also teamed up with Baidu. So there are, I mean, if we talk about Waymo kind of working with Uber in a way, ‚Åì and then Waymo with Zeekr Uber with the three Chinese robot taxi companies, and then now Lucid, it's wide variety of players, both from China and the US. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

Yes, that's right.

More and more people

are posting about the Zeekrs that they're seeing as Waymo vehicles in California.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, I didn't see one in Phoenix when I was there. ‚Åì Maybe they were running around somewhere that secretively, but ‚Åì yeah.

Tu Le 

Anyways,

maybe this is a short one. Anything else?

Lei Xing 

You know, yeah, you know,

the 30 future announced the super one, the FX super one. And most of the, don't know if you saw this, most of the comments have been, this is a way Lanshan MPV that they brought over and kind of rebadged it or something with the big huge screen in the middle. Yeah. You know, got to respect.

Tu Le 

Yeah.

sure. They said they raised 100 million.

Lei Xing 

YT, I mean he's just... surviving, he's just surviving and then just might die another day.

Tu Le 

That's the definition of grinding. That's the definition of grinding. Yes.

So rather than try to think of things to talk about, let's go to comments. Apreza, as I mentioned, said 60 % of vehicles sold in China were NEVs. And what I'd written in the newsletter, go ahead.

Lei Xing 

‚Åì other.

Yeah, the other big number, I think, is quite huge in my opinion, is that one out of every vehicle on the road in China is an N.E.V. based on the Ministry of Public Security number that came out. One out of every 10 automobiles in China now is an N.E.V. Roughly 37 million out of the 370 million vehicles on the roads. I think that's very significant.

Tu Le 

One out of what?

Lei Xing 

Hmm

Tu Le 

So, Apreza, I'd written in the newsletter that this makes the 60%. I don't actually know if it's 60%, it's close, but for the foreign legacy automakers doing business in China, it really puts them in a precarious position because how much longer can they straddle and invest in ICE technology?

and also BEV and eREV and PHEV technology because they don't have endless amounts of capital. And if they want to truly be a player in the China market, sooner rather than later, they need to make that full commitment. ‚Åì And so, which for the American companies seems even more challenging now with the lack of any incentive to purchase an

and NEV in the United States. SPX, good morning. always polite ‚Åì greeting us. As always, SPX, appreciate you joining. His question or his comment, what's the high level 8S system comparison among Momenta, Huawei, Waymo, and God's Eye in their strength and weakness? How would you rank them in current capability?

Lei Xing 

Yes.

Tu Le 

and potential to eventually L5 ADAS. I'll start.

Lei Xing 

Well, that's...

Yeah, go ahead.

Tu Le 

So first of all, Huawei has, and you correct me if I'm wrong, they have not moved into the, the robotaxi space. They're primarily in the intelligent driving space. And so I think it's important, you know, Momenta is doing a little bit of both, but it looks like they're in order to commercialize sooner or pull in commercialization, they're doing intelligent driving, but I think they're originally to be a robotaxi company. So.

Lei Xing 

Not yet.

Here it is.

Tu Le 

I almost feel that we need to separate some of these companies like the Waymo's and the Momenta's because God's Eye is only currently a BYD intelligent driving system. I've gotten a chance to ride God's Eye. I was really impressed. I wasn't expecting much, but this was during Beijing traffic. It was pretty significant and it wasn't.

like this area like Yizhuang where it's kind of slow moving, right? It was in ‚Åì Wudang Ho area. So I was pretty impressed. Have not tried Momenta yet. Have not tried Momenta. So I can't tell you that. Have tried Huawei system a while ago. ‚Åì so I still think Pony's is pretty good. ‚Åì You know, when I'm back in Beijing, we'll try Baidu again, Lei and stuff like that. But what do you think?

Lei Xing 

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah, that's. A lot of trouble.

If I had to rank, I'd probably put Momenta at the top ‚Åì purely in terms of

momenta momenta momentum. I definitely put it at the top because everybody seems to be ‚Åì signing up. mean, the Toyota, GM, Mercedes, right? I mean, there's these major automakers from every part of the world, Japan, Germany, American automakers, Chinese companies, BYD. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

Momentum.

BYD, GM, Toyota, BMW.

Lei Xing 

So, and obviously BYD has the...

‚Åì its own system, right? God's eye, but it also has the momentas in some of the other vehicles. So I probably put momenta purely in terms of smart assisted driving. Outside of the Li Autos, the XPengs, the NIOs, which have their own systems, right? Yeah, but if we talk about Waymo, Pony, I mean, that's

‚Åì different story.

Tu Le 

I still think Waymo's probably the best.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, same here. based on the, well, Phoenix, think it's a grain of salt because Phoenix is, know, the operational design domain is much, I'd say it's slightly easier because of the weather, because during the day there's nobody out on the roads because it's so hot. It makes it a little bit easier.

Tu Le 

But we tried them in LA

and San Francisco. ‚Åì

Lei Xing 

Yeah, yeah,

so, yeah. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

Apreza writes,

I hope someone makes a compact MPV especially for the Southeast Asia market. I think that's a Leap motor thing.

Lei Xing 

The motor BYD, I don't know.

Tu Le 

Okay, so Riz, and I'll let you answer this first legence, do we think the L90 sales will eventually surpass the L60? Is the large SUV market that big in China to absorb all these six, seven seaters?

Lei Xing 

It has the

It has the potential. But I would say my minimum, if L90 does 5,000 a month, I'd probably give it a B. If it does 10,000 a month, I'd it an A.

That's my minimum. That's my expectation.

Tu Le 

how I would.

How I would look at this Rez is that unfortunately because of the aggressive pricing of the L90, the L60 is likely going to get squeezed because for, go ahead.

Lei Xing 

No, no, I probably would say, yeah, it will, but I think also the ES6 will get squeezed. ‚Åì The line's getting too much blurred, I think.

Tu Le 

So

you're referring to the NIO ES6. Okay, just to clear that up. So RIS, you what's important about the China market and always important to remember is that this year, the China market will be larger than the European and the US markets combined. Okay, so when you say, when you ask, is the large SUV market that big in China?

Lei Xing 

Yeah, NIO ES6

Tu Le 

I think we need to look at that relatively to the other markets. And it isn't huge for China, but it makes markets in other parts of the world.

Lei Xing 

The other way to kind of answer this question is a lot is riding on the L90, but it does have the pieces in place for it to become a blockbuster Model. Whether it does or not, then we'll see in a few months. It's ready to deliver. I mean, there's tons of vehicles already produced.

Tu Le 

in

It's announced on Sunday, deliver on Monday.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and then there's no official numbers, but it seems to be in the 30-some thousand range in terms of orders you know, we'll see.

Tu Le 

The last thing I'll say about this is that at least in the United States where you see tahos, you see X7s, you see expeditions, navigators, escalates, quite often it's not as, ‚Åì the large stuff is not as prevalent in China as in the United States.

Lei Xing 

The interesting things I always think, I could be wrong, but I always think this i8 and the Onvo L90 are probably in a biggest rivalry in that segment, even though the pricing is completely different. So if the i8 does well than the Onvo L90, then I don't know, something's wrong there.

Tu Le 

man, forget about it.

I can't imagine that being the case because of the pricing discrepancy between the two. what we will perceive because we don't know what the IH pricing yet is, but.

Lei Xing 

I can't imagine that. Yeah, yeah. So which is the interesting to watch.

Because

mega recent weeks and months, the sales are actually picking up. And when they started selling mega, it kind of flopped, right? And now actually sales are picking up. And the Onvo L60 is actually, ‚Åì I don't know, doing slightly better than before.

Tu Le 

I think

we were being tough on the mega because it's a 800,000 rmb MPV large large SUV. So the numbers were not large, but respectable, respectable.

Lei Xing 

I think they're selling over 3,000

a month now, which is significant.

Tu Le 

Yeah, I

really like the mega.

Lei Xing 

And then the fact

that the I series, the i8 and I6 carries that over.

Tu Le 

It,

it, I like the earlier designs of the Li auto vehicles more than more than the older, the current designs of some of the vehicles.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

SSJJ005 says the L90 starting price is crazy. There is no way Onvo can make money by selling 60 seater pure EV SUV under 300,000. It is impossible.

Lei Xing 

NIO is trying to make money by the end of the year, so let's have that in mind. it going to depend on the L90? Some of it, but I think we also have to see what the NIO brand does. What's in front of us is the expectations that Li Bin said himself. 20,000 units of NIO and 20,000 units of Onvo

Tu Le 

Accounting wise, accounting wise.

So one last thing I'll say about the i8. ‚Åì

they, there is immediate pressure to do a price cut before announcing the price. So my guess is it'll be 250 ish. And in order to at least being the same ballpark, cause if it's at 300, then I don't.

Lei Xing 

Well,

the L6 starts at, I think, 250. I ‚Åì can't imagine the i8 go down that much, right?

Tu Le 

‚Åì

So, and Li Auto is going to be a bit hamstrung because of all the emphasis on trying to get out of the price war from the central government.

So Mike writes, I hope Ford steals, I mean, gets inspired by the Bronco new energy and brings it here in 2028. Well, Mike, that assumes that the tariffs go away or there are some exceptions made.

because

Lei Xing 

Let's first get that

LFP plant going.

Tu Le 

Yeah. So, ‚Åì man, I forgot to do this. So I was in St. Joe's St. Joseph's, Michigan, which is on Lake Michigan, basically other side of Chicago, okay, on the west side of at a lacrosse tournament. And I was on I-94 driving west and there's a detour. And guess where it took me? It took me right past

Lei Xing 

noise

‚Åì okay.

Tu Le 

Marshall, and I drove right by the Ford factory

Lei Xing 

how was it looking? Was it, is it nearly done or is it half baked or what?

Tu Le 

I didn't see that many Chinese

people. I'll be honest, I didn't see that many Chinese people. But anyways, it's off. So it was just some random coincidence because I'm driving. I don't even know I'm in Marshall, Michigan. And my GPS says there's an accident ahead. Take this detour. It'll save you six minutes. And so I took it. And then I see the sign and I see this factory probably.

Lei Xing 

you

You can actually go into

the town of Marshall or...

Tu Le 

Yeah, so I drove

in it was like it was like a one of those ‚Åì business things in it. So yeah, it was a weird because there's a lot of construction. Michigan always has construction. But anyways, so I drove by the Marshall Michigan factory, which rolls cells, which is supposed to be rolling cells with CATL technology. anyways, ‚Åì Riz.

Lei Xing 

Complex. Yeah.

Cool, cool,

cool.

Tu Le 

They're running around in Ningbo making their way to Phoenix. So he's talking about the Zeekrs having driven the L60.

Lei Xing 

Well,

the Zeekrs will have those Waymo drivers fitted in that plant in Mesa, right? Arizona? Phoenix. Yeah. So,

Tu Le 

outside of Phoenix or something like that. So,

well, they currently ship them bare bones and then ‚Åì Alphabet or Waymo fits them with all the sensors and stuff.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and I plan with the Magna in Mesa.

Tu Le 

So Riz, having driven the L60 in Jiading, Shanghai back in April, they're such a quality product, so can only imagine the L90 would be top notch. Getting closer to Neo brand as you say gents, thanks. So right on.

Lei Xing 

It's very

blurred. For that type of, for that money, what you get is extremely...

undeserving for to do that. I mean, it's crazy to think about it.

Tu Le 

But

so in the grand scheme of things, whoever had written about they can't make money on 200,000, who wrote

SJ, you're absolutely right, SJ. But what they're hoping for is for the weaker players to exit the market, the market, they can stabilize pricing. The idea would be less players so they could push up pricing a little bit. Now there's never going to be this less non-competitive. They're hoping a less competitive environment, not a non-competitive environment. But right now, to your point,

200,000 for a seven-seater, three-row large SUV is just bonkers and it's not sustainable. So what they're trying to do is make the market healthy so that, and also remember that if your utilization rate is over 80 % at the factory, then you can eke out some margin. know, anyways, that's all.

I have and I think that's all you have Lei unless you want to add anything. So.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. No, I

tried to catch a glimpse of Jensen Huang, but I did not succeed. But I did walk around the Supply Chain Expo, and guess who was exhibiting?

Tu Le 

Who's this?

Lei Xing 

Tesla. And all they were doing is doing live streaming at the stand with the Model Y and the Model 3. Every time I open my WeChat, Tesla is doing live streaming. I don't think any other brand does that. They're constantly live streaming the current incentives, answering questions. Yeah, yeah. So.

Tu Le 

They're flooding the zone.

That's probably one of the only ways they can stay in

the consciousness of the Chinese consumer.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, but I'm hearing this, like I tweeted that this supply chain expo is basically the Northern CIE. I talked to some of the people at the stand and they say, it's ‚Åì GR government pushed that they had to be there kind of relations. Yeah. So that's why you don't see Tesla exhibiting auto shows in China, at least.

Tu Le 

GR is government relations.

Lei Xing 

not in Beijing or Shanghai anymore. But they do appear at these type of shows for some reason. ‚Åì Yeah, I mean, yeah. that's,

Tu Le 

Support the government.

All right, everyone. Thanks as always for joining us. We will talk with you all. Hopefully it looks like I should be able to do it next Friday again. So we will talk with you all next week. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Everyone have a good weekend.

Lei Xing 

Same time, no problem for me.

Likewise, bye bye.