Episode #220 - Zeekr 9X Frenzy, Chengdu Motor Show Highlights & China’s EV Chip Wars

In this episode, Tu Le and Lei Xing unpack a busy week in the global EV world — from the Chengdu Motor Show to the explosive 42,000 Zeekr 9X reservations in just one hour.

We dive deep into:

• 🚙 Zeekr 9X launch & aggressive pricing strategy – the “Hangzhou Bay Cullinan” takes aim at premium SUVs.
• 🇨🇳 Chengdu Motor Show highlights – Volvo XC70, Ford Bronco BEV/PHEV, Exeed ET5 with Horizon Robotics chip, Roewe M7 DMH, and Huawei-backed HypeTech A800.
• 🌍 Global expansion moves – BYD, Leapmotor, and others ship kits abroad (Thailand, India, Hungary, Spain) to skirt tariffs.
• 🧠 China’s chip push – Horizon Robotics, Black Sesame, Huawei, XPeng, Li Auto and others design their own silicon, challenging NVIDIA & Qualcomm.
• 📉 EV price war 2.0 – NIO standardizes 100 kWh packs, Li Auto struggles, XPeng hits 30k+ monthly sales, and Xiaomi momentum builds.
• 🚀 New entrants – DreamE (yes, the robot vacuum company!) jumps into the ultra-luxury EV space, aiming at Bugatti.
• 🔋 Battery tech trends – Sodium-ion, LMR, dual-chemistry packs, and how EREV strategies could influence U.S. trucks.

👉 Join us for sharp insights on China’s fast-evolving EV sector and what it all means for the global auto industry.

🔑 Keywords

China EVs, China NEVs, Zeekr 9X, Geely, Volvo XC70, Ford Bronco EV, Exeed ET5, Roewe M7, HypeTech A800, Huawei ADS, BYD, Leapmotor, XPeng P7, NIO ES8, NIO Onvo L90, Li Auto i6 i8, Xiaomi SU7, DreamE EV, Bugatti challenger, Chengdu Motor Show 2025, IAA Munich preview, Horizon Robotics, Black Sesame, Hesai, RoboSense, Nvidia, Qualcomm, China EV chip war, EV price war, Sino Auto Insights podcast, Tu Le, Lei Xing.

Time stamps:

0:00 – Welcome & intro (Qixi “Valentine’s Day” edition)

1:30 – Zeekr 9X launch & 42,000 reservations in 1 hour

4:30 – Design, pricing & “Hangzhou Bay Cullinan” positioning

6:30 – Chengdu Motor Show overview & significance

10:10 – Volvo XC70 launch & Ford Bronco EV/PHEV reveal

12:00 – Exeed ET5 with Horizon Robotics chip & Roewe M7 DMH

12:45 – Huawei-backed HypeTech A800 flagship sedan

15:30 – BMW Neue Klasse, IAA Munich preview & European competition

16:30 – BYD, Leapmotor & kit assembly abroad (Thailand, India, Hungary, Spain)

20:00 – Chinese Tier 1s at IAA: CATL, Horizon Robotics, Hesai, RoboSense & more

22:00 – China’s chip wars: Horizon, Black Sesame, Huawei, XPeng, Li Auto vs. Nvidia & Qualcomm

26:30 – NIO standardizes 100 kWh packs & the “non-price cut price cut”

28:00 – Li Auto i6/i8 challenges, XPeng momentum, NIO L90 vs. Li Auto L9

31:00 – He Xiaopeng interview: “only 5 automakers will remain” debate

33:10 – SOE restructuring: Dongfeng, FAW, Changan consolidation

34:30 – New entrants: DreamE (robot vacuum maker) takes aim at Bugatti

39:00 – XPeng P7 vs. Xiaomi SU7 – which would you choose?

44:30 – NIO delays L80 launch to prioritize L90 demand

45:30 – Battery tech trends: Sodium-ion, LMR, dual chemistry & U.S. truck lessons

48:30 – Big picture: SUVs, EREVs, BEVs & China’s consumer preferences

49:54 – Wrap up & preview of next week’s IAA coverage from Munich

Transcript

Tu Le 

Welcome to the China EVs and More podcast. In the next hour or so, my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV and mobility sectors. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome.

 and to our loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. We ask that you smash those subscribe and like buttons so you don't miss anything from us in the future. and I are two of the most knowledgeable people in the world doing this. So we want your help to get the word out about this podcast. My name is Tu Le I am the managing director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech focused products and services to the transportation and

 Mobility sectors. read free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for that. Sino auto insights dot sub stack dot com, which of course I encourage you all to do a new layout for the podcast. Lei Can you please introduce yourself?

 Lei Xing 

Yeah, I do have a kind of a new office layout that I did a couple of days ago, but this is your co-host Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. And this is episode 220, a Chinese Valentine's Day edition. Qixi, Qixi, which means the seventh of the lunar July. So I think there's...

Tu Le 

yeah, that's right!

 Lei Xing 

3 or 4 of Valentine's Day in China. Anyways, do we start off with the dream or do we talk about the Chengdu Motor Show a little bit first?

Tu Le 

actually think we should talk about the 42,000 reservations in an hour for the 9x and

Lei Xing 

Alright, so we can talk about Chengdu Motor Show. ‚Åì Yeah, Zekor 9X was one of a few that I think made some headlines because of the positioning and also the pricing. It is pre-sale. It is pre-sale.

Tu Le 

Hold on. I always got to stop

you because we need, we need always background because we always get new, new viewers. So Geely is a Zeekr is a Geely brand. And they recently in the Shanghai auto show showed off the 9X in videos and social media. And they launched it officially at the Chengdu motor show. And before.

they blacked out all the windows so the interior wasn't done. And you and I, I think, agree that it's, if the Land Rover Range Rover and the Cullinan, the Rolls-Royce Cullinan had a baby, it would kinda sorta look like this 9X, except for the grille. Which I'm not a big fan of, but the rest of the car, first of all, it tells you that

Chinese consumers love big SUVs just like Americans. so, sorry, please continue. The one thing that's really surprising, Lei, is although we're seeing really aggressive pricing off the get, this is still pretty aggressive pricing from Zeekr

Lei Xing 

‚Åì It is pretty aggressive. I would have thought it would be over half a million RMB But back to the positioning and when you mentioned Cullinan the nickname for it is the Hangzhou Bay Cullinan. We talked about that earlier. And it's interesting because the designer, Stephen Silov, he was in this promo video and he was doing the zero gravity seating himself.

Tu Le 

Yes.

Lei Xing 

So he was the actor and he was the designer. And I think he's like, I don't know, six, five-ish. He's taller than me. So they used him kind of as a prop. But about the pricing, it is pre-sale, by the way. So they had the reveal at the Shanghai Auto Show. Now they have the pre-sale. And then the launch later.

which I expect the pricing to further drop by maybe a few 10, 20,000 maybe it's entirely possible, which gets into very close the battery purchase pricing of the ES8, the new ES8, which starts at about 418,000, 418,000, remember.

Tu Le 

$60? Okay.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, so that's market competition. I would have thought it would be at least over half a million RMB based on the posture, based on the size of it, based on the feel. But that's the market, right?

Tu Le 

I also thought it was going to be at least a half a million RMB. So very surprising. And what do you think about the interior?

Lei Xing 

Well, I mean, it's a flagship. If it's a Hondo Bay Cullinan, it's got to be the Rolls Royce interior, especially with the knob on the stack. So I mean, it's what you would expect.

Tu Le 

So you and I, let's just be frank and upfront about this. We're fans of Zeekr because number one, we're buddies with Geely and Ash, right? But also Frank Wu, formerly of Jiyue is now also part of the leadership on the design team. And I don't think he's had that much influence in the 9X, but I could be wrong.

We should talk to them about that. But that being said, go ahead.

Lei Xing 

No, no, I think he's working on future models. I don't think he had a part in the 9x.

Tu Le 

Right.

And so I agree. so, and let, you know, I don't have an agenda. You don't have an agenda. We want them all to win. Unfortunately, that's, that's not going to happen. But Zeekr is the case where they have a big conglomerate in Geely backing them. They seem to have a pretty robust European strategy. The lineup of vehicles is now much more complimentary than it was a year or two ago.

especially now that they have this flagship 9X. You they also have the mix. They have the 7X. They have the smaller X. The unfortunate thing is I've been told, and I'd mentioned this in previous podcasts, is that the Australian market is still pretty challenging for them.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and then they also have on the Volvo side, they launched, well not launched, the starter pre-sale of the XC70, which is an entirely China specific, maybe it's from one of the SMA platforms maybe, born out of that, especially catered to the Chinese market, right? Starting at under, $40,000.

a kind of an eREV or a plug-in plug-in hybrid and then they'll ship it to Europe maybe next year but that's again what I will call a Chinese Chinese vehicle badged under the Volvo brand.

Tu Le 

Let's have you get a brief history lesson on the Chengdu Motor Show. It's one of the top four, Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, and Chengdu, correct?

Lei Xing 

Yep, here's how I would position it. So Beijing Shanghai would be what the industry calls the A plus auto shows, international auto shows. And the Chengdu and Guangzhou would be the A minus. And then the rest of the regional auto shows are kind of the B or below. That's kind of the position. But I think it's losing luster.

over recent years. The last time I attended Chengdu was 2018.

And so it's kind of a show that's welcoming the autumn. It sets up kind of the new selling season, end of the summer. But I think it's losing luster, especially given that people are more, they like to do individual events.

And there's so much going on, especially this year right before, yeah, right before IAA, which is basically later next week or the following week. So it's difficult to juggle. then, you know, I saw some pictures that people are posting. It was, still jarring to me, even though we've been to the auto shows, it's all you see on the show grounds are the

Tu Le 

which is the global trend.

Lei Xing 

live streaming stance.

Tu Le 

Hahaha

Lei Xing 

And I just look back at when I attended previously, that wasn't the case. I did see quite a few Chengdu motor shows on the press day. The salespeople will have their boards or iPads in their hands and they're lined up. Even on the press days, they're ready to talk to you. So Chengdu is also more

Tu Le 

and try and get your QR code.

Lei Xing 

Chengdu is more also a kind of a dealer, sales, shopping mall type of show rather than the Beijing and Shanghai, I would say. But still important, I think, for a lot of these brands.

Tu Le 

Well, there's still vehicle launches, you know, so I think that that is important. The Volvo launch...

Lei Xing 

was the day before they had an individual event, I think.

Tu Le 

So here's how important that Volvo launch was because somebody texted me and was like, hey, why is the Volvo share price bumped up? And I looked and I was like, that's because they launched this car. I'm not saying the exact, there's a direct correlation, but I'm assuming that people saw that they had launched the vehicle in China for China, the XC70 and we're like, ‚Åì pretty impressive.

It matters. The Chengdu Motor Show still matters and the OEM still look at it as an opportunity. Maybe even to not have to have such sharp elbows because of the Beijing and Shanghai Motor Show, if you launch something, you're not one of the premium brands that are globally recognized. It's going to be very difficult for you to get any air breathing room.

because you'll get aped like that. maybe it's good for the smaller brands or lesser aggressive brands. Maybe that's not the right way to say

Lei Xing 

So none of the

super luxury brands were there. Porsche wasn't there. Some of the joint ventures weren't there. And I just, if I look at maybe some of the top models that I glanced over last night and earlier this morning, we talked about the Zekor 9X. I thought the other ones I mentioned, Bronco, PHEV, and Bev had their global debut.

Tu Le 

Mm-hmm.

Lei Xing 

Not available in the US market, but that's another specifically Chinese market vehicle. I kind of like it because Ford is going in a completely different direction. They're trying to go with these niche models rather than the mainstream. I think they will. I think they will, depending on how they price them. And then, yep.

Tu Le 

Those things are gonna sell. Those things are gonna sell.

The

BEV version of the Bronco does not look the same as the ICE version of the Bronco in the United States. It's worth mentioning.

Lei Xing 

How are you different?

It's different. They all look different.

Yeah. It's a 650 kilometer range. And then the bet, the PHEV, I think it's got the 1200 kilometer with a battery range of 200. And they, I thought it was interesting. They have this, what do call it? A roof that you can raise. So when you put a bed in the car and you sit in it, you actually have headroom. What do call that? I thought that was an interesting feature.

Tu Le 

Mmm.

‚Åì

accordion?

Lei Xing 

You know, like a rectangular, a triangular thing that you can raise on the roof. So that's kind of interesting.

Tu Le 

Yeah, yeah,

‚Åì man.

Lei Xing 

And then I kind of mocked the Exceed ET5 because of we all know what the ET5 is. But it's important because it's got the Exceed ET5 is the first model globally with the Horizon Robotics 6P chip. And I believe

Tu Le 

You and I know the ET5 very well because we drove it for 800 miles so...

Lei Xing 

The HSD from Horizon Robotics launching, which is they're trying to compare it with FSD, the capabilities. So I think that's important, even though I kind of mocked it being the same name as the NIO ET5 And then the Roewe M7 DMH. Do you remember the Pearl concept?

Tu Le 

Yeah.

Lei Xing 

that

kind of look like the Jaguar Type 00. That's the first model from that concept and it's a B-Class plugin at around 100,000 RMB. Well designed, I think. And then the other one is the HypeTech A800 flagship sedan with the Huawei ADS. I think those are the few.

Maybe plus the Volvo XC90, the notable ones, revealing or launching at the terminal module. That's it.

Tu Le 

And the Chengdu Motor Show is much smaller than the other auto shows, by the way, just FYI. So you wouldn't expect a ton of huge launches from this show.

Lei Xing 

No, well the venue isn't

necessarily smaller, but the kind of the scale and yeah, it is small.

Tu Le 

Right.

This is what Westerners would consider like a regional auto show as opposed to a global auto show. So, and for those wondering, Roewe is an SAIC brand.

and

You know...

Lei Xing 

You know, all of these brands that I mentioned, the Chinese brands, most of them, they most likely have a well-known international designer behind these designs.

Right? Roewe think MG, Joseph Caban, and then I talked about Stefan Sielaff. He was with Bentley before.

Tu Le 

no question.

Yeah, without question. So what media is starting to focus on right now is the IAA. There's been articles about the Neue Klasse challenges with software, because Zipsa just said, we cannot make any mistakes. And so there's a lot of buildup for BMW.

and what they're going to show at IAA next week or in two weeks. And luckily you and I will be there at IAA we're going to get to see firsthand, talk to the people and get perspective. think people will be interested in hearing from us about how much... Here's the thing. There's a distance between the Chinese EV makers and the Western automakers. What...

What I think you and I can do really well is give perspective and how much they've caught up or are they catching up.

Lei Xing 

That's exactly what we're going to look for, is to see that distance after two years, because we were there in 2023, and boy time flies, right? How much have they caught up in terms of the kind of the cockpit software? I think that's definitely what we're looking forward to finding out.

Tu Le 

And I'm curious to see

who wants to make the biggest splash. XPeng is going to show off the P7. So that is going to be a highlight, I'm sure, of IAA. BYD, as far as I know, is not going to be launching any new products at this show.

Lei Xing 

Well, they have the,

I forget the name, it's a Touring a DMI Touring. believe it's a, what's it the, one of the ocean animals, maybe. There's so many names I can't remember. Maybe seal or maybe whatever, not seal, some other animal. They are revealing, yeah.

Tu Le 

Yeah. ‚Åì

you

So let's park this for a second.

Let's park this because BYD started shipping kits from China to Thailand and then doing final assembly in Thailand and then shipping those to the EU. And this was their first shipment, 900 units. So first of all, the Thailand facility is online. They also ship kits into India.

Lei Xing 

And then, Yep.

Mm.

Tu Le 

and they are going to be shipping kits into Malaysia. Why this is important is because they're not adding capacity from what they have in China, because effectively they're still doing a lot of sub-assembly at these factories. So the challenge for the Chinese government is if there's overcapacity in China and then these Chinese automakers leave China,

and then build more capacity. It doesn't help their overcapacity issue in China. if they're able to keep, first of all, not add any additional capacity in China, and then once demand settles down a bit in the Chinese market, they can still utilize any excess capacity to ship kits abroad. Okay, I think this is a great strategy for

companies like BYD and who was the company that, that was Leap Motor. Leap Motor was shipping kits to Hungary, right? Or I think it was Hungary.

Lei Xing 

Leave more of

And they

also have plans to build in Spain.

Tu Le 

And the Spanish are happy to take that foreign direct investment and those jobs.

Lei Xing 

Yeah. And the motor.

Now was just going to say Leap Motor is also launching, I believe, the B05 compact SUV, at the IAA. And then they've already shipped the B10 catered to the European market, under 30,000 euros starting price.

Tu Le 

Go ahead.

But here,

let me ask you this, If you're a von der Leyen is that good enough? If I'm shipping kits into Europe?

Does that count as locally manufacturing?

Lei Xing 

As long as, I don't either. But I'm sure BYD have studied this and I mean, there's always loopholes, always ways you can get around it.

Tu Le 

I don't have the answer. I don't have the answer, but...

Well, the ultimate loophole is pushing the German manufacturers to accept and pressure the EU to lower tariffs and or make it easier for the Chinese to import into the EU. And let's do this. Let's do something new, For those that are watching, let us know what you think.

Lei Xing 

Well, that's...

Now that's still discussed.

Tu Le 

Do you think the EU is going to be restricting shipping kits? And or do you consider that domestic manufacturing if they're not manufacturing the entire vehicle in country?

Lei Xing 

Well, we'd like to see some comments. Sure. We don't have the answers, but at least that's in progress and there's ways to, you know, bypass some of the restrictions or tariffs. But even with the tariffs, they're going over there. Right? Fireflies are launching.

Tu Le 

Yeah.

You know?

Well, the tariffs aren't

prohibitive like they are in the United States.

Lei Xing 

And I was saying that the discussions about kind of the pricing, it's still going on. There's not been much progress, but it's still going on. And maybe EU is more preoccupied with, well, they did have that agreement with the US.

Tu Le 

on standardizing the vehicle specifications. Yeah, so.

Lei Xing 

Go.

Terrors. Yeah. Yeah. So

it's kind of fluid. So.

And then, you know, the IAA is becoming, right, BYD, Leap Motor, Xpeng, Hongqi, Aito, Aito right, we saw from post about Aito, CATL, a few other battery suppliers, Horizon Robotics, Black Sesame, Momenta, Mini Eye, these are all relevant. Zhuo Yu, Zhuo Yu, Zhuo Yu is quite an important...

Tu Le 

CTO.

Lei Xing 

the DJI Auto spin-off, which working with Volkswagen on their ICE model ADAS solutions. I think a lot of the relevant players up and down the chain are in Munich. not only the OEMs, I'd rather pay more attention to the, know, even RoboSense, Hesai, they're all there as they've been the last few years.

Tu Le 

without question.

It was obvious to us two years ago that the Chinese, not just OEMs, but the tier ones were there. So I want to understand and see whether the local Europeans that are attending the show actually realize that a lot of these companies are now Chinese. Because I think

It was a little bit under the radar a couple of years ago. You and I know because we live in this space. And how comfortable and how comfortable they are.

Lei Xing 

Well, one example. Well,

the answer is one example. Last time Horizon Robotics was in IAA, all they displayed were their partner domain controllers utilizing their chips. They actually did not exhibit any of their chips.

I wonder what happens this time because it's part of being, for lack of a better word, careful. Because Horizon Robotics At It is their kind of a second tier, tier two supplier. Although they are directly working with Volkswagen, but you know, those are delicate topics when it comes to chips.

Tu Le 

As Nvidia has their earnings, and Jensen Huang has been all over the news the last couple of days, the Nvidia and Qualcomm most assuredly are now looking over their shoulders because let's name them off, can. Huawei, XPeng, NIO Alibaba, Horizon, Black Sesame, they're all designing their own silicon.

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

Tu Le 

will likely use SMIC as the foundry that fabs all of the silicon.

This $4 trillion valuation of NVIDIA is really, really in jeopardy of getting cut out at the knees, taken out. Not because NVIDIA doesn't have great chips, it's just this priority to domesticate some of the more advanced silicon being used in data centers and AI training and intelligent driving.

Lei Xing 

and add Li Auto into it, They're gonna have their own M100 chip next year, perhaps. mean, was, Jensen was quite in quite a few interviews. He just very bullish on the, first of all, still the opportunities that he said American tech companies in China.

Tu Le 

yeah, the auto.

Lei Xing 

I that was interesting. He talked about the 50 billion market opportunity that's going to grow at 50%. And he's not part of it yet, well, with respect to the H20 chips, but he's part of it on the, on ADAS side with the Thor and the Orin, which are being replaced gradually by the Shenji chips, by the Turing chips. You know, that's

Tu Le 

Yeah. As,

as Qualcomm is dialing up their suite of hardware and software called the digital chassis. Cause you know, it's a known fact that if you have any type of cutting edge, uh, connected vehicle, the front is controlled by snapdragon. The, the intelligent driving is, is, you know, uh,

Lei Xing 

Yeah.

Tu Le 

using Nvidia silicon. So that is going to change pretty drastically over the next 48 months, I think. And we're likely to see a bubble in China because there are so many chip designers. Originally, was just Horizon and Black Sesame were the two highlighted companies, but now

Lei Xing 

Well, there's that, what's the company name? Capricon, which grew like, I don't know, 4,000 % or something. It was still small, but you know, Han Wu Ji is the Chinese name, but yeah, there's many.

Tu Le 

Yeah.

and

And it's important to note that chip design as well as chip fabrication is really, really, really tough. So even if the chip designers are able to get to two nanometers and less, which NVIDIA and AMD are able to get to, SMIC, can they build to spec, right?

Lei Xing 

W-

Tu Le 

those are gonna be some of the other challenges. It's a supply chain thing. It's not just an innovation and design thing.

Lei Xing 

And Li Auto talked about doing this in within three years from start to, you know, I think they had a tape out and return of the chip was shared on the earnings call within three years. I don't know the normal process or how long it takes, but they said it was fast that they can do it in three years.

Tu Le 

The challenge is that...

with being vertically integrated. So this is where BYD has such an advantage because all of these teams are new at the OEM side with the exception of BYD who has designed chips and fabricated their own chips since day one effectively. So to have that type of domain knowledge internally already, now BYD is not

designing or historically weren't designing AI chips. So, but, also if you, if you look under the hood a little bit deeper, Nvidia has CUDA, which is the software system that supports all other silicon. Now look to an Alibaba, all these companies to also create some software that, that optimizes for their silicon, but it also creates this moat.

that makes it hard to get out if you're already in the ecosystem. And that's what Nvidia is hoping for. They're probably gonna drop price on their silicon as they see more and more competition in order to get people into the ecosystem. And that's where they got you. So keep an eye out for that stuff.

So man, ‚Åì well this.

Lei Xing 

And then

we, yeah, we, no, I just saw this morning, we talked about NIO, we talked about Shenji. NIO just announced they're standardizing all of their vehicles with 100 kilowatt hour batteries packed, which is what you will call a non-price cut price cut.

Tu Le 

What else do want to talk about?

Hmm. Hmm?

Lei Xing 

I have to credit you on that. But, right, we talk about the bloodbath and the price war, it's still going on, but just in different ways.

and that's a lot of pressure.

Tu Le 

‚Åì

Let me get a quick supply chain example. So, you make the front console for the ES8. So it's one part number, but the interior of the ES8 comes in five different colors. So now you're dealing with five.

And so when you standardize into one SKU you eliminate a lot. It's not just, okay, I just eliminate one thing. You, and number one, you create economies of scale. Number two, you simplify the manufacturing process. Okay. And then you, for battery swapping, you up the utilization rate. So now you don't need as many batteries probably because you don't have as many SKUs to manage. That's why

Lei Xing 

And the same,

yeah, speaking of standardizing.

Tu Le 

That's why Henry Ford was

like, you can have any color as long as it's black.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, speaking of standardizing SKUs, Li Auto did that with the i8 they tweaked it. The P7 launch, we saw a lot of that standardizing features. By the way, the pricing of the P7 was lower, lower than I expected. Starting at $19,800. And then I think going forward, you're going to see that a lot.

to standardize even as equal to 9x.

And that's part of the non-price cut price cut, Throwing in all the features, you know, this cost $16,000. I'm giving you a free for a limited time. That costs $8,000. It's free until when, whenever, you know.

Tu Le 

It is.

And think of it this way, with the 9X pricing and launch, Li Auto ball is in your court because now the L9, you know, the flagship SUV, E-rev from Li Auto seems a little bit out of sorts when you compare it to the lower end L90 and the top end 9X.

Lei Xing 

Well, yep.

Well, we talk about the auto a little bit in their earnings call. They're primarily employing two tactics, one on the VLA, ADAS side agent, and then the other side is on their sales and marketing tactics, which they think will help them pass through this kind of round of turbulence, if you will, because they are seeing the L series going down a little bit.

and the guidance, they're guiding less than 100,000 in Q3.

which for a company like Li Auto is bad.

because they've done over 150,000 quarters before. And now they've launched their i-Series, they're launching the i6, which I personally would feel as a consumer, I'd very much, I'd rather like the i6 rather than the i8 because it's a five seater. But how much will they price that model?

Tu Le 

and

And

this is not happening in a vacuum. This as XPeng eight months straight of, or 9 months straight now of 30,000 unit sales a month. This as NIO launches the L90 and sees huge success. This as NIO launches the new ES8 and aggressively prices, ‚Åì reprices it.

Lei Xing 

This narrative suddenly is flipped. Remember how much of a NIO and XPeng were in a funk, maybe 12 months ago? And how Li Auto was just steaming ahead and now it's the other way around. And what was interesting was in that podcast with Luo Yonghao, He Xiaopeng, said,

Every 12 to 24 months, any of these new startups, go through them.

Right now it's Li Auto going through it.

Tu Le 

Yeah, he basically said it's cyclical. It's a momentum thing. It's a product thing. But let's talk a little bit more about He Xiaopeng's interview. You tweeted about the whole five automakers. So can you get us a little bit background? Who interviewed him? What was this all about?

Lei Xing 

cyclical yeah nope

Luo Yonghao is the Chinese internet celebrity and a live streamer. taught English at the Shandong New Oriental. He's a big shot now. And he just started out with his own kind of the Chinese Joe Rogan style. Not so much extreme, but the way they talk and they...

ask questions is not like an interview. It's really a down to earth kind of you and me being honest and telling some of the backstories of these companies and how they started the companies and the people part of it. So he's starting out with this series now which interview Li Xiang first, He Xiaopeng in the second episode.

And I'm wondering if he's going to do William Li in the next episode. But yeah, it's interesting. And so in these podcasts, both Li Xiang and He Xiaopeng have talked about very provocative perspectives. One being the five automakers remaining. And I was watching it and

Tu Le 

Hmm. I'm sure they've reached out. I'm sure they've reached out.

Lei Xing 

I'm thinking there's no way that He Xiaopeng at this point think that he will be one of five that will remain. But he said that's what makes it interesting because you have to fight.

Tu Le 

He's wrong. It's not going to be five. It's going to be more than five.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, would it be eventually five? 2040 2050? We don't know. Maybe. But I think he alluded. I don't think it's going to be five by 2030. I can't see that happening either. So yeah. So but I do think those SOEs, a few of those

Tu Le 

I mean there's five SOEs, there's more than five SOEs.

Lei Xing 

two or three could become one, that is possible.

Tu Le 

Well, let's drill down. Could be because Dongfeng is restructuring. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Lei Xing 

Yeah, don't find

their the Hong Kong listed entity DFMG is being privatized to pave the way for the IPO of Voyah And this, yeah, from Hong Kong, and this followed the Changan group, had a reshuffle earlier this year of the parent company of the centrally administered. So now there's

Tu Le 

on the Hong Kong Exchange.

Lei Xing 

With what happened to Changan, there's three Changan, FAW, Dongfeng are the three centrally administered state-owned automakers. And what's going to happen with these three companies going forward? Maybe two of them merging into one. It's not out of the question.

Tu Le 

And

what's weird to say?

10 years ago in China, that would have been unheard of. Now we're actually talking about it like it's more real than fantasy, which is it's a tectonic shift in the competitiveness and the need to be competitive and profitable because these state-owned enterprises, I've never looked at them as these innovative really

profit driven companies, but we're seeing that pressure now on them.

Lei Xing 

And at the same time, we have a company called Dream Me entering.

Tu Le 

yeah, let's talk about that.

Lei Xing 

Right? I mean, there's brands that are still emerging. I'm talking about brands within established automakers or let's say Huawei adding the Shangjie brand. There's still more coming. But there's also these new players that

are still entering and these are from the robot vacuum. We now have two ROX

Tu Le 

The Chinese Dyson.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, the Chinese Dyson. Well, there's many Chinese Dysons, just as many Chinese Googles or Chinese Facebooks or whatever. But DreamE is one of the top selling robot vacuum makers or brands globally. I think that's how you say it. if it's because the Chinese, Zhongwen is DreamE.

Tu Le 

Is that how you say it, Dreamy? You say Dreamy?

How do ‚Åì

Okay. Yeah.

Lei Xing 

which means literally to

explore and to search. So this is the second robot vacuum company that's entering following ROX. Now ROX is producing this 01 Li Auto wannabe ERAV SUV and selling about like 12, 13,000 units a month. But now DreamE has entered

Tu Le 

Okay.

Lei Xing 

the conversation and this.

Tu Le 

And we're

talking, they are aiming at the Bugatti.

Lei Xing 

That's the thing, It's not just we're entering, but we're entering and we're going to challenge the Bugatti Veyron, the world's fastest car, EV.

Tu Le 

And let's be clear about this, because in 2015, 2016, 2017, you don't have any Chinese company thinking they can challenge the ultra luxury vehicles.

Lei Xing 

Well...

No,

but in the letter that DreamE posted, they said this has been under the wraps for 13 years. And now they think they're finally ready to make an announcement. And this thing's coming in 2027. One of the things about DreamE, I think what they're confident in is their motor technology.

their robot vacuums are known for 160,000 Schlull 1 RPM to 200,000 RPM motors, which makes the sucking of the dirt and stuff much more impressive. And the guy who started the company is a graduate of Tsinghua University. I think he was in a special

Tu Le 

PM.

Tsinghua is

MIT.

Lei Xing 

MIT, so he was in a special program. then, yeah, I mean, we can literally look at it as a Chinese Dyson doing what Dyson didn't do, just like what Apple, Xiaomi did what Apple didn't do, almost like that.

Tu Le 

Let's

unpack this a little bit late because 13 years in the making, this tells me that the timing is right from a market standpoint, the technology is there from a technical feature and spec standpoint, the confidence that the company can put something on the road that

Lei Xing 

the

Tu Le 

They can associate, compete directly with the Bugattis. There's so many different things that culminate in this 13 years in the making quote that they made.

Lei Xing 

They have over thousand people already in the project. And one thing they do have is there's no way else the resources that China has if you want to start a company doing EVs. They're standing on shoulders of giants, of the established players, of the established, of, yeah, also,

Tu Le 

of Li Bin, of Li Xiang, of Wang Chuang Fu,

of...

Lei Xing 

Also, they're standing on the resources of these emerging Chinese tech companies that we mentioned earlier. So maybe that helps them with it. still, question mark, I don't know. Nothing should surprise us anymore. there's more, another Li Bin or another Lei Jun. It's China. You'll find it in China.

Tu Le 

Yes, yes.

Yeah, so hey we're at 950. I don't really have anything else.

Lei Xing 

Same here, I do have a stop at 10, so we're good on time. ‚Åì

Tu Le 

Okay. So

let's go to questions. Let's go to comments. SPX, what's going on, SPX? Good to have you on. Good morning, guys. How's the new P7 momentum? Reservation and public opinion compared to the SU7

Lei Xing 

So

the P7, I did look at their history of the Mona MO3 and the P7 Plus, how much orders they got within the first, I don't know, minutes or hours. P7 was definitely the most. Seven minutes, 10,000, I think. Which makes me...

Tu Le 

Yes.

Lei Xing 

to believe that this is going to be another 10k a month model, which He Xiaopeng says they're confident they're going to do 40,000 in September and achieve break even by Q4.

Tu Le 

So.

I didn't finish the question because here's the interesting part for us, Lei. If both are available in the United States, putting aside practicality, which would you go for and why? That's a great question, SPX.

Lei Xing 

‚Åì all right.

Both meaning P7

versus

Tu Le 

SU7.

So first of all, the P7 is the size of a Model S. It's not the size of a Model 3. So it's big. So I think just setting that aside, that they're different sizes, you first. What do you think?

Lei Xing 

it's big. It's not a model 3. Definitely not a model 3. Even though it's... Yeah.

Ugh, I...

I may have to go with the P7 just because the experience that we've had with many of the XPeng vehicles that I've had with the XPeng vehicles. Maybe I'm biased, but it's very distinctive looking. think that's one thing that I think.

is what I would veer to rather than the SU-7. Not discrediting what the SU-7 is, you know.

Tu Le 

So I haven't

driven the P7, driven the Su7, loved the Su7. The P7, the one thing about the design, I do like the design. I think it looks great. Generally, I think the rear end is a little bit long from the wheel overhang part. the design part, because the SUVs are so rounded,

I want to see what the next G6 and G9 and G7 look like, whether it's going to incorporate, and how much it will incorporate the angular, kind of right angle stuff that the P7 has. Do they keep the SUVs really rounded and the sedans very angular? But that has nothing to do with what I would buy.

I'm assuming that the P7 is going to be pretty fun to drive, although it's a much bigger car. I do like the S or the SU7 But yeah, I lean with Lei, I think. But again, I have two kids, so I can't stop. I can't not think about buying a car that's not going to have my two boys in the backseat.

Lei Xing 

27.

Yeah.

Tu Le 

Thanks for your question though, SPX. Jeffrey's on. What's going on, Jeffrey? SSJJ005. L80 launch is now likely delayed to 2025, 2026 in order to fulfill the L90 demand. Disappointed that they do not have capacity to supply 10,000 a month.

But will F3 help this somehow?

Lei Xing 

Well, I believe the F3 is for the new ESA or no, I could be wrong, but it may not be just the plants themselves, It's a supply chain as you well know, you're experienced.

So, but I mean the momentum is whether it's the ESA or the Onvo L90, they have to ride this momentum. So it will be delicate to launch that L80. At what time do they launch and deliver so that they can maintain this momentum, especially toward the end of the year. Which there's always a pull effect because the 30,000 purchase tax

30,000 and maybe purchase tax ends this year. And I'm still getting messages from these salespeople that adding me, hey, know that there's 30,000 end this year. Do you still want to consider something? Right? It's a poll. I think definitely poll just like here in the US, the September 30th credit tax credit ending. Yeah, that's.

Tu Le 

That's me. After I get off the phone, I have plans

to go to one or two dealerships. So SSJJ005, I don't know how tough of a decision that was to punt the L80 into 2026. We're already into September. launching in 2025, I'm not sure how many they would have actually delivered.

Lei Xing 

You've got a lot of research to do.

Yeah.

Tu Le 

by the end of 2025, number one. Number two, I think this was a pretty tough decision for them because maybe they feel like they're leaving money on the table if they're not, if they see this demand for the L90, it creates momentum. And if you're not able to deliver the L90 within a three, probably a six week window.

They're going to go somewhere else. Chinese consuming, mean, Lei Jun has told people, hey, man, we can't get you a YU7 in six or eight weeks. You need to go buy it from somebody else. Buy it by another car. So I think it wasn't an easy decision. to Lei's point, maybe it's not NIO and the capacity at their factory at the final assembly factory.

Maybe it's up the upstream where their suppliers aren't able to build that. I'm not sure. It would be a good question for me to ask them.

Lei Xing 

Well, first of all,

we have to confirm whether NIO is confirming or NIO has publicly said that this is the case or it's just a report or a rumor. Now, I don't know, but the plan was to have the L80 launch in Q4. And Li Auto, I mean, they're very clear. I6 is launching and start delivering at the end of September.

Tu Le 

Right.

Lei Xing 

which I think should be a more volume driver than the i8.

Tu Le 

If the brand, Li Auto is hoping that what happened with Xiaomi and the YU7 happens with the i6 that kind of people forget about some of the challenges that Li Auto has had recently in social media, like a reputation challenge, because their challenge wasn't driven by an accident or a tragedy. It was driven by the water armies. The last question, Lei, we the audience don't talk about battery much.

Lei Xing 

Thank

Tu Le 

What are the big picture like the major trends in the battery supply side? So lithium pricing is down, number one. Number two, CATL in April talked about sodium ion. They talked about dual chemistry batteries and GM and Ford are looking at 2027 to launch LMR, which is lithium manganese rich, meaning that there's no

Cobalt and nickel. LMR is supposed to have a balance. Then you're looking at the LGs in the United States have decent capacity now to start rolling LFP cells. So a rebalancing is happening now on the mineral mining and refining side. There's still a ton of work that needs to be done, especially into the

the rare earth magnets, if we're just talking about batteries, Lei, add anything you want from my son.

Lei Xing 

Well, think we talk about kind of the chemistry side of it. There's always been chatter about sodium ion, solid state, but I think those are, I think at least with respect to China in terms of the product side of it, we're seeing very interesting things because of the EREV vs. the BEV of what you put on an EREV

some of it is getting really big to have 400 almost 500 kilometers of range on an eREV and then NIO deciding to put the 100 kilowatt hour battery those are very dynamic of how the feature spec pricing and overall the pricing as you mentioned is going down which can afford

the NIOs and Li Autos and XPengs to price their vehicles at lower expected prices because that's the general cost reduction from the volume side and also from the scale side of it, the battery supply.

Tu Le 

Here's the key for Legacy Auto. I hope they are really paying attention to what's happening in China because the E-rev that has a decent sized motor, that's the perfect, perfect, perfect solution to a full-size truck that needs more than 300, 400 miles of range when you're towing or when there's a heavy payload. So it could be the perfect bridge.

for the pathway towards completely battery electric and or maybe it's a sub-segment of clean energy vehicles. Now the purists don't believe EREVs are completely clean energy and that's fine. But when we're talking about, in the words of Li Bin, survival, then the legacy automakers really, really, the Stellantis that sold the Ram truck,

The GMs that sell the Silverado, the Yukons, and then the Fords that sell the F-150 and the Navigators, they need longer range on these vehicles. They need to be lighter. And so having 150 kilowatt hour battery and a 9,000 pound car is just not something that is sustainable. I'm jumping off my soap box now, and I know you gotta run Lei So any last words before we close it out?

Lei Xing 

No, and then

just to continue, finish off what Li Bin says, know, the large three row SUVs, I think we're going into a transition phase where the BEVs will work. We're past that transition phase where you can be confident in a BEV in a large SUV rather than an eREV.

Tu Le 

The larger trend Lei is that Chinese consumers love affordable, large SUVs. Now, I'd love a Tahoe. It's a $95,000 car in the United States. What if they could create an e-rev Tahoe and sell it in China? That would be a hit, I believe. So as long as the software and the connected was up to

up to par.

Lei Xing 

Yeah, and then the Onvo L90 to this point, I think it's probably at the top of that competitive pyramid in terms of that segment. There's not been too much challengers when you think about the features pricing battery swap. So, go for them.

Tu Le 

Everyone, as always, thanks for joining us and not sure what we're gonna do next week.

Lei Xing 

We'll have to out next week. You let me know because

you will be in Munich by Friday, right?

Tu Le 

Saturday, so I take a red eye, I think. So I still think we're going to be OK. ‚Åì Next week will be an IAA preview. I'll have my schedule all sorted out, and I'm sure you will too. And then we can talk about what we expect, what we hope, and what we're excited about seeing over in Munich, besides our good friends that we probably haven't seen in a while. So everyone.

Lei Xing 

OK, so we'll figure out what to do next week. OK. All right.

and

Yeah.

Tu Le 

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you all next week.

Lei Xing 

Bye bye.