Episode #222 - NIO Day 2025 Preview, Reuters “Tailspin” Story & China’s Overcapacity Weighs Heavily

In Episode 222 of China EVs & More, Tu Le and Lei Xing tackle a packed week in China’s EV world as the industry faces mounting headwinds at home and abroad.

They break down the major developments impacting China’s auto sector:

• 🚘 NIO Day 2025 Preview & Stock Surge – NIO heads into its biggest event of the year on a high after a 120 % rally and strong demand for the new ES8.
• 🏁 Li Auto i6 Launch & “Cadence” Shift – Chinese EV brands adopt Tesla-style instant launch-and-deliver strategies.
• 📉 Reuters “Tailspin” Report on China’s Auto Industry – a deep look at overcapacity, price wars, and government pressure on OEMs and suppliers.
• 🏦 Policy Tightening & New MIIT Safety Rules – China moves to rein in involution and strengthen ADAS and connected-vehicle safety standards.
• 🌏 Export Shifts & Tariff Pressures – Mexico mulls higher duties, Canada goes zero, and Chery faces possible exit from Russia ahead of its Hong Kong IPO.
• ⚙️ BYD Targets 5 Million Units – non-price cut discounts and supplier-payment pledges amid a challenging Q4.
• 🧠 ADAS & Chip Wars Update – Momenta, Horizon Robotics, and Nvidia square off as Chinese and German OEMs race to catch up.
• 🇩🇪 Munich & Detroit Takeaways – Tu’s Automotive News Congress panel, Hyundai Chairman Chung’s appearance, and why U.S. leaders still underestimate Chinese EVs.

👉 Get Tu and Lei’s front-line insight on where China’s EV industry is headed next — and what Western automakers need to learn fast.

___

🔑 Keywords

China EVs, China NEVs, NIO Day 2025, NIO ES8, Li Auto i6, Li Auto i8, BYD sales forecast, XPeng, Xiaomi SU7, Chery IPO, Chery Omoda, BYD exports, Reuters China EV tailspin, China auto overcapacity, EV price war, China ADAS policy, MIIT safety rules, Momenta ADAS, Horizon Robotics, Nvidia H20, Chinese EV exports, Mexico tariffs, Canada EV policy, Automotive News Congress, Hyundai Chung, Tu Le, Lei Xing, Sino Auto Insights Podcast, China EV podcast, EV market analysis.

___

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to the EV Landscape
02:43 NIO Day and Market Dynamics
06:58 Involution and Market Challenges
10:09 Global Market Trends and Protectionism
13:22 Corporate Strategies and Price Wars
16:27 Industry Perspectives and Future Outlook
19:49 Automotive News and Events
23:15 Insights from the Automotive News Congress
27:48 Geopolitical Impacts on the EV Market
37:10 Conclusion and Future Discussions

Transcript

Tu Le (00:02)
 Welcome to China EVs and More where my co-host, Sheng and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV and mobility sectors. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome. And to our loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. We ask that you...
 
 smash those subscribe and like buttons so you don't miss anything from us in the future. and I are always on planes, it seems like, going to China and Europe. So help us get the word out about this podcast to others. My name is Tu Le I'm the Managing Director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps innovative and tech focused products and that helps
 
 Organizations bring innovative and tech-focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that you can find at sinoautoinsights.substack.com. so Lei, who is in China currently, can you please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing (01:07)
 Good evening to a about to return to Munich Tu. This is your co-host Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. And this is episode, it's an interesting number for China, 222. And yes, I'm in China. Part of the reason is I had to come back for a personal matter which got taken care of. very glad.
 
 And then, thankfully, happen to be here. And I get to attend another NIO day. So I'm really looking forward to it because it's
 
 Tu Le (01:39)
 When
 
 are you leaving?
 
 Lei Xing (01:40)
 Leaving tomorrow, taking the train down. And then I have another trip coming up for the other project that I'm doing. And I'll be returning to the US right after the October 1st holiday.
 
 Tu Le (01:42)
 Okay.
 
 Lei Xing (01:51)
 Good.
 
 Tu Le (01:51)
 I unfortunately
 
 was obviously invited to NIO Day and I have never been so I am going to go. I'm going to try to commit to next year going to NIO Day.
 
 Lei Xing (02:02)
 Yeah, it's a spectacle and it's special also because I'm looking at the new stock price right now is $7.56. And in the last three months, it's grown by about 120%. So unlike last year, NIO is going to this new day on a high, on a very high, especially given
 
 this UBS analyst, Paul Gong, who I know, and I was texting him, it's like, you give a buy rating to NIO and he's shrugged his shoulders. But anyhow, it's a big day, but also NIO, they're not doing the NIO Day as before, where they spend, it's just a NIO Day.
 
 Tu Le (02:43)
 Âæà§öÈí±
 
 Lei Xing (02:44)
 Well, they're still spending a lot of money. But used to be held in December. And this time they chose to held in September. Part of the reason is to accommodate the launch of third gen ES8, which reportedly has gotten 100,000, this is unconfirmed, refundable orders.
 
 Tu Le (02:46)
 Yeah, yeah.
 
 Yes.
 
 Lei Xing (03:07)
 And.
 
 Tu Le (03:08)
 I mean, you gotta throw those
 
 numbers, you gotta have a grain of salt with those numbers,
 
 Lei Xing (03:11)
 Exactly.
 
 And just like I don't pay too much attention to the weekly numbers, but yeah. And then.
 
 Tu Le (03:19)
 Well, you and I had always agreed
 
 that it needs to be at least two, three months of consistent movement one way or another for us to really consider pressing the panic button or cheer for, you know, increase in sales or whatever.
 
 Lei Xing (03:36)
 Yeah, and then I think recently the fact of the matter is that NIO had just launched good, competitive, well-priced products. Antonio, well...
 
 Tu Le (03:48)
 We talked about this a little bit
 
 last week, Lei, but it feels like, you know how XPeng kind of got their product portfolio correct. Seems like, although NIO still has what I feel might be too many overlapping products, seems like they're getting it right as well.
 
 Lei Xing (04:06)
 Yeah. The other thing I was alluding to or was about to talk about is really they've got this cadence correct or maybe not correct, it's the right word, but better rhythm based on the market demand, which I think I spoke to some of the German brand people in Munich. And I think that's something they will learn.
 
 It's just cadence of launch sometimes as important as the products themselves. So we're seeing that refresh a bit. Case in point, the Li Auto i6 launches and delivers. There's no pre-orders. It just does it. I think they're trying to copy Tesla, which has been doing that.
 
 Is that being frugal? I don't know what it is, but these are the tweaks that are happening to address demand and market conditions.
 
 Tu Le (05:03)
 Well, and we also know that
 
 things are being watched more closely than they have been over the last three years. The central government is very, very active on, on, vocal. And so I think that maybe part of that I6 launch is we don't want to say a price and then lower the price and, things like that because
 
 It might create scrutiny when they don't need to have.
 
 Lei Xing (05:32)
 That's exactly what the four letter AUDI did with the E5 Sportback. Because people going into it thinking the launch pricing, me included, will be lower. But it stayed at the exact pre-sale pricing. Which I think Audi did on purpose. It's just also trying to show, know, we priced this vehicle for an Audi.
 
 starting at 230, 240,000 RMB We can't do any lower, neither can we go any higher.
 
 Tu Le (06:05)
 Well, in fairness to Audi, the structural costs are much more significant for an Audi, the legacy automakers, generally speaking, than a NIO or an XPeng
 
 I mean, they have to see complete failure in demand before any type of price cut. I think coming in to that pricing, they probably thought this was as aggressive as we can be.
 
 Lei Xing (06:30)
 Yeah. then, and then really something that we wanted to talk about today is that Reuters article. I'm sure you've seen it about the China. I, I'm not sure I liked the title, but it's, it's, it's something that's happening. I think it's great reporting from the Reuters team, but it's this backdrop, right? That's kind of what we're seeing in recent days and weeks.
 
 Tu Le (06:40)
 Yup.
 
 So a little background.
 
 Lei Xing (06:57)
 about toning down this involution, about exposing the issues, the negative side of this tremendous growth that we've witnessed over the last few years, involuted growth. ‚Åì The auto is one example, right? ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (07:12)
 And you know, what's
 
 What's
 
 different about this article and kind of the situation in the current atmosphere is dealers are openly talking about being forced to take on cars. And there's this open talk about zero mileage used cars. so normally in a usual, usual situation, this is an unusual situation. You wouldn't get those types of comments from the, the, the ecosystem, but you're seeing.
 
 Lei Xing (07:40)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (07:43)
 People, partners, complain about the environment and how negative it is.
 
 Lei Xing (07:51)
 Yeah, I mean, me being here, I continue to get messages sent from the salespeople. This Tesla lady is sending me, there's discounts from Shenyang. Because now we're at the end of September, before the October holiday. There's been a kind of what you say, a mad dash, right? Same in the US, like you're personally in that situation. So.
 
 Tu Le (08:18)
 I was just at
 
 the Audi dealer yesterday looking at a Q6 e-tron because there's end of the month deals.
 
 Lei Xing (08:26)
 Yeah, and then today, this recall was a simple OTA from Xiaomi for pretty much all the SU-7 standard editions is also stemming, most likely stemming from that accident six months ago. They're just tweaking the highway NOA speed optimization, I think. That's part of OTA recall.
 
 And then this recent introduction of, I'm looking at the MIIT's introduction of the safety requirements for combined driving assistance systems of intelligent and connected vehicles.
 
 Right, these policies and regulations are coming out scrutinizing, basically, I think, and new requirements on safety. And the other side of it is on less evolution. I think we're kind of seeing that toward the end of the year. Is this going to stop the price war? I think this is going to continue in some way and form, but...
 
 I think maybe the government, even myself included, has come to a conclusion that it's enough. Maybe, right?
 
 Tu Le (09:29)
 I don't know if we can take another year of this. I think 2026 is going to be a pivotal year for the China economy and the passenger vehicle market because...
 
 Lei Xing (09:37)
 it.
 
 Tu Le (09:42)
 You know, it doesn't help them abroad either because the protectionism now, I think we kind of mentioned this last week, Mexico is looking at increasing tariffs. They're the 12th largest passenger vehicle market in the world. Canada is number eight. So if Canada drops to zero and Mexico increases, then maybe that's a wash. you know, Canada is a mature market. It's not growing. Latin America is.
 
 And so if they're pushed out of the Latin American market because, or the Mexican market, you know, that's, that's a hit and it doesn't help. And it's not going to help their over capacity challenges. So I don't know how much farther or how much longer they can kick that can down the road.
 
 Lei Xing (10:26)
 And then I just saw a story about a Chery perhaps exiting the Russian market due to some restrictions. I'm not sure if you've seen the news, but I just saw something. had to look into it. For someone like a Chery, I think this is really related to the silver capacity issue. Chery exports half of their sales.
 
 Tu Le (10:48)
 Actually, in August, they were at 53 % exports, 53 % of total sales, more than half, which is not great. This is on the heels of their IPO in Hong Kong.
 
 Lei Xing (10:50)
 Right? Yeah, so half of their sales are exported. Yeah. Yeah, so that's one.
 
 Right,
 
 think there will soon be IPO in Hong Kong, probably within a matter of days, not weeks. So all of these things are kind of happening and, you know.
 
 At the same time, WM Motor is restarting production. We have this Dreame announcing that new.
 
 Tu Le (11:17)
 I saw that
 
 Let me stop you there.
 
 WM Freeman Shen or WM some other management team? That's what I wasn't sure about. Okay, that's what I figured.
 
 Lei Xing (11:29)
 some other management team.
 
 a shareholder being, majority shareholder being a auto sales company from Shenzhen. These are the things that I think make you say why, why, know, especially with this over capacity that this Reuters article talked about. It's an issue, but at the same time.
 
 Tu Le (11:38)
 Mmm.
 
 You know why, Lei?
 
 Because they probably still have those factories in Wenzhou!
 
 Lei Xing (11:59)
 That's exactly it ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (12:02)
 is because
 
 I visited that fact those the factory in Wenzhou the WM motors in like 2018 you know when you know and it's like oh goodness but
 
 Lei Xing (12:06)
 Yeah!
 
 2018, same year when they announced the EX5.
 
 And then Dreame, right, from this robot sweeper company that's announced, posted the picture of a Bugatti look-alike. What do you call that winged, weird-looking door sports door? And they're in Berlin. Berlin announced something about building in Europe.
 
 Tu Le (12:25)
 You
 
 Lei Xing (12:35)
 I don't know what to say really.
 
 Tu Le (12:35)
 I don't know man.
 
 So you have all these, what's the right way to say this? Kind of conflicting messages. WM starting production, Dreame is gonna do a Bugatti competitor that they've been working on for 12 years. With the backdrop of the central government saying, cut out the price war, pay your suppliers.
 
 And then, you know, the Geelys and BYD saying, yes, we're going to pay them within a reasonable time, you know, trying to be good corporate citizens. But they're also then offering non-price cut price cuts to incentivize consumers because we're getting towards year end. And I believe that BYD is going to do everything in their power to get over five million units. You know, they talked about 4.6, but
 
 Lei Xing (12:58)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (13:22)
 You know, 4.6 would be a disappointing number for BYD for sure.
 
 Lei Xing (13:28)
 Yeah, well, sooner or later, you can't have those kind of growth anymore, right? And you are pointing to the payment terms.
 
 Tu Le (13:33)
 and
 
 No, no, just really quickly, one of every five BYD vehicles is exported now.
 
 Lei Xing (13:41)
 Yeah, I think it's probably higher than that, maybe a quarter, if not 20%. But I was saying that the other thing that happened recently was the CAAM came out with a statement about the payment terms. then I think like 17 to 20 automakers soon posted statements saying, OK, we're going to adhere to this. And these 17 to 20 represent like 99 % of sales in China, basically. But in reality,
 
 Who knows? It's probably more PR. But these are kind of the things that are either going to be, well, it seems positive, but on the financially, on the books, it could be negative if you play with the accounts receivables and payables. It's another thing that's kind of a headwind.
 
 other from the sales pressure to compete. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (14:35)
 So for those folks wondering, Reuters posted an article earlier this week, the team in Shanghai, and then with some help with the US team, I think. So I want to point out a couple of articles. That Reuters article is terrific. The New York Times ‚Åì Keith Bradsher article is really good.
 
 Lei Xing (14:44)
 Shanghai.
 
 So, yeah.
 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (14:57)
 You know, the, the Reuters team has been really, really, hitting on all cylinders. really liked Nick Carey's article a few months ago about the, the Chery vehicle and how they went Euro spec or China spec to Euro spec in like six weeks or six, seven weeks. So if, if, if, you know, I'm not here to endorse anybody, but there are some pretty accurate articles out there, that we will highlight that, that, you know, Lei I don't know if there are.
 
 to other people in this world that kind of intimately understand what's going on in China the way we do. think that, so I wanna shed light on those articles that seem very accurate.
 
 Lei Xing (15:30)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah, this Reuters article's title is, I'm looking at right now, China is sending its world-beating auto industry into a tailspin. It's very provocative, it's quite long, yeah, but it puts things into perspective, you know? ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (15:47)
 It's a long read too, it's a long article.
 
 And our friend,
 
 Simon Wright, also wrote a piece earlier this week about his time in Munich for the Economist that's a pretty good one.
 
 Lei Xing (16:05)
 Yeah.
 
 So I mean, think this, I I just want to say like, I've been able to come back quite a few times now. I think I've lost that, even myself lost that kind of the initial Christmas day gift feeling. And also think that this is perhaps the foreign automakers perspective as well, that things needs to slow down a bit.
 
 Tu Le (16:06)
 So.
 
 Lei Xing (16:27)
 just kind of the, know, at the same time, it's jobs, it's economy. I've been buying, I've been using JD for waimai because they have the discounts. I said bye-bye to Meituan. Right?
 
 Tu Le (16:29)
 So let me talk.
 
 Cause that's the, well that's the most important.
 
 The discounts.
 
 so I should remind folks that I stayed with a friend. This was probably a year ago now, or, I was staying with a friend and his toilet broke at 10 o'clock at night and we ordered a plunger and it came at like 1230 in the morning. So.
 
 That's the kind of service and competition that you're dealing with in China. now blow that out to the automotive industry. Could you imagine in the United States, the type of aggressiveness and customer service that you would get in China at a dealership in the United States dealer? It's just the experience in general for car buying in the United States is awful. And I can't stand it.
 
 Lei Xing (17:30)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (17:31)
 I can't stand it. ‚Åì It's something I couldn't
 
 Lei Xing (17:33)
 And then the other thing.
 
 Tu Le (17:35)
 tolerate if we had to buy cars every few months or once a year, I just would pull my hair.
 
 Lei Xing (17:41)
 And then this past week, think the foreign brands, Buick with the Electra L7 and then Audi with the E5's Sportback Well, I felt like there's some momentum gaining maybe from the foreign brands. But what they're going to experience next year is not so much the China speed of time to market.
 
 I think they figured out that right. The problem is whether they can get the China speed right in terms of making decisions to pivot once those products are launched to iterate, to update the products. Because that's what the Chinese EV brands are doing. It's something that I thought of. I'm not sure.
 
 Tu Le (18:28)
 But I don't know if the Chinese,
 
 I don't know if that's sustainable for the Chinese either.
 
 Lei Xing (18:34)
 Right, how long does that continue?
 
 Tu Le (18:38)
 So,
 
 you know, there's the too fast, too slow, and then just right. I don't think we're at the just right yet. Because the price war is dictating a lot of changes, a lot of updates. But if, and this is a big if, big if, if 70, 80 % of the car makers are taken out of the system, then we can get to this just right point. But.
 
 When state-owned enterprises are discounting cars just to keep factories running and have no path towards profitability, it doesn't really help a NIO or an XPeng or a BYD. And that's the unfortunate thing because it pushes out their profitability even farther.
 
 Lei Xing (19:21)
 And yeah, and really, it's for these people, they have to ask themselves the question, where should the industry go? Where should, you know, what is a healthy growing industry? What do they want? It's, you know, just putting things in perspective. I know we're a little bit down today, but putting some cold water, but, you know, that's where it is.
 
 Tu Le (19:44)
 Yeah, at least, so let me talk my situation for a few minutes.
 
 Lei Xing (19:49)
 Yeah, talk about your
 
 maybe events in the last few days or weeks.
 
 Tu Le (19:53)
 So
 
 I leave on Sunday to go to Munich and then Tuesday night, plan to, my wife is gonna come with me and we will, we are planning to go to Oktoberfest Tuesday night and then on Wednesday, I'll go to a city about an hour outside of Munich called Tegernsee and there's a small,
 
 Lei Xing (20:13)
 Mm-mm.
 
 Tu Le (20:15)
 Transportation Leaders Summit hosted by a couple of venture capital firms that I'll go to. I'll report back. But that's from Wednesday to Friday or Saturday or something like that, or Thursday to Saturday or something. And so looking forward to that. The weather's going to be changing. There'll be some hiking. So it'll be interesting.
 
 Lei Xing (20:29)
 and then.
 
 I will warn you, I've been to the one in Stuttgart nine years ago and it's prepare yourself for some madness.
 
 Tu Le (20:44)
 Mm.
 
 Okay, I will do that.
 
 Lei Xing (20:51)
 You
 
 Talk about the automotive news congress, you were part of last week, Or this week, this past week, right? This week.
 
 Tu Le (20:56)
 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
 Yes.
 
 It was Thursday. It was Thursday. I didn't talk about it on Friday, last Friday. Do we have a show last Friday?
 
 Lei Xing (21:10)
 No,
 
 we recorded the episode on the 9th and we didn't have anything. right, was last week, I apologize. It was last week, right after Munich.
 
 Tu Le (21:15)
 yeah, that's right, that's right, that's that's right, that's right, so.
 
 But we didn't record a live show, correct? OK. OK. So Thursday was the Automotive News Congress in Detroit at the GM headquarters. Lots of panel discussions about speed and changing. But you and I, they talk around.
 
 Lei Xing (21:25)
 No, no, right after Munich we did not.
 
 Tu Le (21:49)
 things, you know, and we had a panel discussion at around three, which was right before Mary had a fireside chat with KC Crain who owns, whose family owns the automotive news. One of the things that was really important was Yusen Chung, who is the chairman of Hyundai. He came to accept an award in
 
 Lei Xing (22:03)
 Mm.
 
 Bye.
 
 Tu Le (22:15)
 The first question that KC Crane asked him was, Hey, you know, what are your thoughts on what's happening in Georgia? And I'm sure there was coordination between the Korean government and Yusin Chung. and he was super humble guy, right? And he basically said, look, I am only concerned about the people involved, you know, the Korean people involved and
 
 Lei Xing (22:25)
 Right.
 
 Tu Le (22:40)
 the US government and the Korean government are working to resolve these issues. So, and the only thing I will say that he was very,
 
 let's say diplomatic about everything he said, because he didn't really say anything else about it except that the visa process in the United States is pretty complicated. That's one of the things he did say and it is. But then he moved on to talk about Hyundai. He emphasized it's all about focusing on the customer, building a product that's customer focused. So I think that was awesome.
 
 What was lost on most people at the Congress was this award. was like a lifetime achievement award. And, you know, I didn't, I didn't think too much of it, but then I see after the panel, after the fireside chat is over, he, he, he, his whole family came. Like they went on stage, took pictures. So this was a huge, huge honor for him. And I applaud.
 
 Hyundai for, I don't know if they were thinking about taking them off stage or not having him do it the fireside chat because of everything that's going on. But I applaud Hyundai. You know, our, our, good friend, Trevor Hale, who's a comms guy for, Hyundai VP. Yeah. So I saw him there. But what's important is that previous to use in coming on stage.
 
 Lei Xing (23:59)
 Yeah, he's not the communications head.
 
 Tu Le (24:09)
 Jose Munoz ‚Åì had a small news conference that talked about it. So that kind of deflated some of the anxiety so that Houston could come up on stage. And then for our panel, I'm probably the only one up on stage. I'm sure I'm the only one up on stage that was in China twice.
 
 Lei Xing (24:11)
 Who knows?
 
 clear it up some, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (24:35)
 this year and has been to China every year for the last 10 years. I don't think anyone else on that stage was in China, you know, for six, seven years. Okay. So I'm, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm speaking from experience. I'm not reading other people's shit. And then, you know, I just talked about
 
 the situation and what we need to do and kind of set the table and everybody, I won't say everybody, there was a ton of people after the panel was like, hey man, great panel discussion, great panel discussion, you're probably the most interesting one today, that kind of thing. So it resonated quite a bit, but that also tells me that people are living in a vacuum a little bit, you know?
 
 I think leadership at certain companies probably aren't giving full disclosure to their employees about the competitiveness and the dangers and the risks that are going on right now, the significance and the real, real.
 
 competition that's happening. think people still believe that these Chinese companies have an unfair advantage, that their products aren't really that good. It's changing, Lei, but it seems like leadership is protecting them from, they're not being treated like adults, basically.
 
 Lei Xing (25:56)
 I think other from the unprofitable business that these Chinese EV brands continue to operate, I think that's one of the issues that was probably pointed out in the Reuters article. Other than that, mean, right? It's all about the product. It's all about how the companies innovate.
 
 These are important things for their competitiveness. Yes, there's subsidies. Yes, there's overcapacity. But I think these are the things are not talked about enough.
 
 and you go back to that balance which needs to be arrived at a certain point, which is not where it is now.
 
 Tu Le (26:26)
 Yeah, you...
 
 And when a Chinese vehicle lands in the United States or a bunch of Chinese brands land in the United States, if the product is better and it's competitively priced, don't think it's what kind of decision is there for the American consumer?
 
 Lei Xing (26:48)
 All right.
 
 Tu Le (26:48)
 I'm not going
 
 to spend 10,000 more to be patriotic.
 
 Lei Xing (26:52)
 Mic drop. No, I was thinking, when do we ever see a, let's say a Detroit auto show with that many Chinese brands colliding with the American brands? When do we ever see that? I mean, if we do see that, my goodness, like, right?
 
 Tu Le (27:12)
 So
 
 I gotta tell you, think one of the things I said on stage, I think I said it. So one of the things I said was, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 24, 36 months, a bunch of you have WeChat on your phones. That's what I said. cause things are changing in the United States and for sure the Biden administration has had a.
 
 Lei Xing (27:30)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (27:38)
 Different philosophy than the Trump administration. And so I don't know where that lands with regards to Chinese, but we're going to find out very soon because Xi Jinping and Trump are meeting today about TikTok and a few other things. so.
 
 Lei Xing (27:48)
 Yeah, I think they just spoke on the phone about this
 
 TikTok or something. I don't know. We'll probably see some news. And then...
 
 Tu Le (27:54)
 Yep. And I think that
 
 TikTok is the canary in the coal mine. You know, if they come up with some solution for TikTok, that could be the path to Chinese EVs entering the US market.
 
 Lei Xing (28:09)
 Wasn't Oracle now being rumored as the
 
 kind of the...
 
 buyer or a shareholder or whatever. Some some arrangements. But yeah.
 
 Tu Le (28:17)
 Yeah, I think that's been rumored for quite a while.
 
 So the rich get richer basically.
 
 And yeah, but the automotive news Congress was really good. ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (28:28)
 I attended
 
 that many, many, many years ago when I just started helping my dad. I think I remember maybe it was in early 2000s, I attended one, like way back, way back when I was still young, still young, but when Dieter Zetsche was the Chrysler CEO, I remember that. That was early 2000s, right? ‚Åì Yeah, but.
 
 Tu Le (28:33)
 Detroit nice
 
 Okay.
 
 Detroit.
 
 Yeah,
 
 so cool. Yeah, I am.
 
 Lei Xing (28:55)
 But think
 
 in the US it's good. think there's some of these conferences sometimes don't have the China component. But obviously now it has to be. Yeah, exactly.
 
 Tu Le (29:03)
 I don't think conferences can ignore it anymore. I don't think,
 
 cause you lose legitimacy. You know, one of the big things about these conferences, Lei, is that they're also really trying to redefine themselves because the traditional panel discussion with executive managers from company X, Y, and Z, now they don't.
 
 really communicate anything because their comms teams really don't allow, know, Jim Farley still says a lot of stuff that I think he, his comms team doesn't want him to, but I don't see that many other CEOs or, you know, vice presidents really being that real, you know, that it seems very polished and saying a lot, but not communicating anything. And so.
 
 These conferences provide a lot less value than they did 20 years ago when you could ask tough questions and not get deflected. And so there's a huge, huge disruption in the traditional conference format as well now.
 
 Lei Xing (30:13)
 And also given recent... No, I haven't paid too much attention to the last few days. I there's been some political upheaval because of that incident. It's getting harder and harder to understand the US sometimes. Why people are like...
 
 Tu Le (30:14)
 And that
 
 Go ahead.
 
 Well...
 
 Well, traditional media, generally speaking, is now so fragmented. And honestly, that's why I think we have such a loyal following as well, I think we cut through the BS. You know, we show people that we're actually experiencing as opposed to reading other people's experiences and interpreting what our thoughts are based on their experiences.
 
 Lei Xing (30:33)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (30:58)
 Man, it's hard to build trust nowadays, right? Because social media, people have agendas, people get paid, but aren't telling people they're getting paid. And I don't want to get too deep into this, but.
 
 Lei Xing (31:01)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah, I know
 
 we should talk about China EVs.
 
 Tu Le (31:15)
 Yeah, so how long is
 
 the train ride from Beijing to Hangzhou?
 
 Lei Xing (31:22)
 Four and a half hours.
 
 Tu Le (31:24)
 OK, so it's the Maglev, right?
 
 Lei Xing (31:28)
 No, just the high speed. But the same time to Shanghai, little less.
 
 Tu Le (31:30)
 Okay. ‚Åì
 
 I have never been to Hangzhou.
 
 Lei Xing (31:34)
 Not ever?
 
 Tu Le (31:34)
 Never been to Hangzhou. Not never been to Hangzhou. I'm going to change that. I need to go visit the Geely guys. So I'm going to change that. So Ash, Kevin, let's go. Let's go.
 
 Lei Xing (31:37)
 wow, okay.
 
 Next year, next year Beijing Auto Show.
 
 Make sure to send that person an email.
 
 Tu Le (31:47)
 think.
 
 All right, so. And then man. So I my adventures in carbuying will end September 30th. I will make an announcement. In or around that time, we might not be able to do a show next week, but so I've because my brother, he sends me these.
 
 Lei Xing (31:49)
 Yeah.
 
 It's getting antsy.
 
 Tu Le (32:10)
 Articles all special deals special deals special deals so I go and it's like yeah, we don't have inventory like and so And then I I talked to Kevin I talked to the Auto Pacific guys. Hey, have you driven this car? Have you driven that car and they're they're all telling me what's up?
 
 Lei Xing (32:25)
 Hey, guess what?
 
 Guess who I met at the Renault open space, the store. Ed Kim. He was, I you a picture. He was wearing a Hongqi hat.
 
 Tu Le (32:32)
 nice!
 
 You
 
 Lei Xing (32:41)
 And then he was buying Renault lifestyle products. I was like, you have a great hat.
 
 Tu Le (32:46)
 okay.
 
 Well, we'll see him in LA. But I
 
 have one of those Hongqi hats. But I got mine in Paris, I think. anyways, I have my Renault 5 right there, and I have my U7 right there.
 
 Lei Xing (32:53)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah, I got one too. I
 
 made sure I got one too because I really like that.
 
 Tu Le (33:05)
 So anyways, let me check for questions, because I think we're good.
 
 So SBX, welcome back from the battleground where Western audience votes with their wallets on the best China and Germany has to offer. That's from SBX. then let me see.
 
 Lei over to Hangzhou, that's from Riz. Sean K, when do you think NIO will come out with an information about new battery swappable EV from Battery Swap Alliance? It has been about two years, so they should be able to come up with a model from Chery.
 
 Lei Xing (33:42)
 So if I remember correctly, William, actually did respond to this type of question at the Onvo L90 launch. It's murky from his standpoint. It's not very clear. But he was basically saying, it's in the works. It'll take some time. So.
 
 When does that time come? I don't know. It'll be something announced at this NIO day, but I guess that something should materialize next year at the latest, if not this year. That's my kind of, there's still that kind of the development and drawing process, making sure that it fits. But obviously we've already seen some rumors.
 
 about was it a Chery or the GAC vehicle?
 
 but nothing has been substantiated or confirmed.
 
 Tu Le (34:36)
 I'm anticipating how the Chery IPO is going to go. So we'll see. Chery has been, I think, one of the pleasant surprises for the Chinese brands because they've been so strong in the foreign markets, the UK, Australia, to a lesser extent. Omoda is a strong brand.
 
 Lei Xing (34:51)
 They've been strong for the last 20 years. So
 
 this is not recent.
 
 Tu Le (34:58)
 Well, I mean, it's like exports. ‚Åì So, and then SPX writes, how are the Germans doing playing catch up in the EV functionalities and specs, drivetrain, battery, ADAS, et cetera.
 
 Lei Xing (35:00)
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
 Well, I'll tell you what, betting on Momenta is one of the biggest things. Buick has the Momenta. Audi has the Momenta. Toyota has the Momenta. The upcoming Mercedes, BMW, all will have Momenta. Just on the ADAS part.
 
 Tu Le (35:20)
 Merk.
 
 Which is surprising to be honest with you, you know, because there are other, you know, Qcraft deep route, know, deep routes working with Great Wall, but you'd think they would try to also be aggressive with other OEMs, but you know.
 
 Lei Xing (35:35)
 Yeah.
 
 No, think this Munich, I tried out a host of these solutions providers and I mean, they're pretty good, pretty good, pretty good. So I think you can see a lot of fighting for deals, whether it's the ZYT, whether it's the Horizon Robotics Joint Venture, Bosch WeRide
 
 They show some incredible things in Munich.
 
 Tu Le (36:06)
 Yeah, and...
 
 Lei Xing (36:06)
 which will go on to
 
 both the Chinese and the foreign branded EVs that are launching next year.
 
 Tu Le (36:12)
 You know what
 
 the next really competitive space is going to be? It's going to be Silicon. The chips, know, Nvidia is, there's a lot of articles recently about Nvidia and you know, the competition has dialed up quite significantly. So, so I keep a close eye on that because there's geopolitics, there's all kinds of stuff involved with some of that stuff.
 
 Lei Xing (36:23)
 Yeah, I met the hotel, right?
 
 Tu Le (36:35)
 and the US government is now taking a 50%. Let's say they get, they, Nvidia is paying the US government 15 % of all their sales or something like that. Nvidia's in order to get the H20, but the Chinese government doesn't, right, but the Chinese government doesn't want.
 
 Lei Xing (36:41)
 at
 
 Right, right, cut up the sales, right?
 
 Tu Le (36:58)
 the Chinese companies to buy Nvidia. So something's got to give. And that's probably one of the things that Trump and Xi Jinping are going to be talking about. anyways, no other questions, Lei. So why don't we leave it there?
 
 Lei Xing (37:08)
 quick one today relatively quick
 
 Tu Le (37:08)
 Everyone,
 
 Lei Xing (37:10)
 working very well this time because the military parade is history.
 
 Tu Le (37:13)
 Yeah.
 
 Yes, there's no delay. We're actually talking like normal people. So everyone have a good morning, Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you off not next week in two weeks.
 
 Lei Xing (37:20)
 Yeah, so...