NIO Is Back, Li Auto Stumbles & BYD Isn’t Slowing Down | China EVs & More Eps. 248

The balance of power among China’s leading EV makers may be shifting.

This week on China EVs & More, Tu Le and Lei Xing break down a remarkable set of earnings results that reveal very different trajectories for China’s EV leaders.

NIO appears to be emerging from one of the most challenging periods in its history, delivering consecutive profitable quarters while building momentum behind the ES9, ONVO, and Firefly brands.

Meanwhile, Li Auto finds itself in an unfamiliar position. Margins are under pressure, earnings disappointed, and the company is increasingly relying on the success of its new BEV lineup to reignite growth.

And then there’s BYD.

While competitors focus on selling cars, BYD continues expanding deeper into batteries, semiconductors, AI, and autonomous driving technology. The company recently unveiled its own advanced automotive chips, reinforcing its position as one of the most vertically integrated technology companies in the automotive industry.

Tu and Lei also discuss:

⚡ NIO’s surprising turnaround and profitability outlook
⚡ Li Auto’s reset and what comes next for the L-Series and i-Series
⚡ BYD’s chip ambitions and technology strategy
⚡ XPeng’s robotaxi and robotics plans
⚡ Stellantis’ €60 billion strategy and deepening China partnerships
⚡ Volvo’s U.S. approval and what it means for Chinese technology in North America
⚡ Tesla FSD vs China’s rapidly evolving intelligent driving systems
⚡ Why the next automotive battle is about AI, software, autonomy, and scale

The EV race isn’t slowing down. But the leaderboard may be changing faster than most people realize.

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⏱️ YouTube Chapter Timestamps

00:00 The Auto Industry Has Flipped
02:00 Trump-Xi Summit & Global Auto Implications
05:00 NIO Earnings: Is the Turnaround Real?
09:00 Li Auto’s Challenges & Margin Pressure
13:00 XPeng’s Robotaxi & Robotics Ambitions
17:00 Why BYD Is Becoming a Chip Company
21:00 CATL, Chips & China’s Tech Arms Race
25:00 Stellantis’ €60 Billion China Strategy
30:00 Why Europe Needs Chinese Technology
34:00 Tesla FSD vs China’s Intelligent Driving Systems
38:00 Waymo’s Momentum & Autonomous Driving Reality
41:00 Volvo Approval & Future Chinese Market Access
44:00 What Happens Next for Global Automakers?
47:00 Final Thoughts

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#ChinaEVs #NIO #BYD #LiAuto #XPeng #Tesla #ElectricVehicles #Robotaxi #AutonomousDriving #ChinaEVsAndMore

Transcript

Tu Le (00:00)
 and welcome to China EVs and more, where my co-hosts, Lei Xing, and I will go over the weeks or the last couple of weeks, most interesting and important news coming out of the global EV, AV, and mobility sectors. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome. and to our loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. help us get the word out about this podcast to other enthusiasts and of course, tune in again next week.
 
 My name is Tu Le. I'm the managing director at Sino Auto Insights Global Management Consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech-focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at Sinoautoinsights.substack.com, which of course I encourage you all to do. Lei, a ready to talk to our audience, Lei, who hasn't
 
 talked to them in a couple of weeks Lei. Can you please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing (01:01)
 Yeah, I have a special well I gotta go through all of these things that we missed last week and a half. But this is your co-host Lei Xing, former chief editor editor of China Auto Review, and episode number 248 So let me get this off first and then we drill down to the details. From build your dreams to build your chips or build you chips.
 
 The larger than life ES9 makes Yao Ming look small, or is it the other way around? What I do know is that they both made William Li look small. Say hi to the Waymo Ojai in a ZEEKR body. SCIC Motor delivers its a hundred millionth vehicle to a special guest. Volvo gets its special approval from the ICTS.
 
 to continue to sell vehicles in the US with China content. Intro yeah. Introducing the Ferrari LOLce
 
 Tu Le (02:02)
 That's a big F and deal.
 
 Lei Xing (02:08)
 Both Xiaomi and Li Auto takes a brutal hit in Q1 earnings while Xpeng pushes ahead with their RoboTaxi and Robots plans. And how about NIO being profitable over two consecutive quarters? Especially in the weak Q1 quarter, right? Stellantis' 60 billion euro pivot and bet on China. The name of the game is Fight the Chinese with the Chinese.
 
 Tu Le (02:23)
 Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (02:38)
 So that's in my kind of Yeah. So that's it's it's I think it's been an epic week in terms of news and happenings. well it's been a week and a half, right? So it's Tuesday right before the Stellantis announced their strategic plan 2030, right?
 
 Tu Le (02:40)
 With the other with the other Chinese.
 
 We'll stop for a second. It's been two weeks since we've recorded.
 
 We can have, okay.
 
 Investerday.
 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Lei Xing (03:07)
 and then this past week just just whole fireworks. I mean BYD, my goodness. it's it's yeah, they dropped the bomb, right?
 
 Tu Le (03:15)
 So where do we want to begin?
 
 Lei Xing (03:16)
 we can talk about BYD, build your chips
 
 Tu Le (03:19)
 since since it's top of mind, let's talk earnings, Neo, Xpeng, Li Auto
 
 Lei Xing (03:28)
 It just shows. I mean, Wei Xiao Lee, they're a special group, right? Because they're three US listed companies, and how sudden the tide could change. Because Li Auto was at the very top. They could do no wrong. NIO was kind of like, you know, they're in the mud trying to get out of it. and that that's flipped, right? Who I mean, who's the hottest company in the in the space right now? It's NIO.
 
 Tu Le (03:53)
 No.
 
 Lei Xing (03:53)
 and I mean the the number of events that William Li has done and the amount of times that he's live streaming, it's all over my social.
 
 Tu Le (04:03)
 Yeah. And and don't follow Chinese social as much as you do and it's it's it's on mine too, so
 
 Lei Xing (04:05)
 that's to say. Yeah.
 
 And Leoto,
 
 I mean, I I don't know the last time I've seen their vehicle and and gross margin fall into single digits. so they're in a deep hole and and they're in a reset. yeah.
 
 Tu Le (04:19)
 Well,
 
 Li Auto, anyways, and the China market, is this the canary in the coal mine? Is this a move away from EREVs a permanent move away? Or is it just specifically because Li Auto's L series vehicles, the seven, eight, nine, six, seven, eight, and nine, maybe they're a little bit long in the tooth, especially for a China market that can't pay attention for more than six months or seven months because
 
 Chinese automakers are always bringing reinforcements or additional reasons why Lei and Tu should buy their product versus a Geely or a BYD or an Xpeng or an AITO or a LeapMotor or a or a Chery. So
 
 Lei Xing (05:11)
 I mean to be fair, the interesting thing for Li Auto is their big top selling model is no longer the EREV. It's the i6 It's the one that we've driven to Shanghai. And
 
 Tu Le (05:19)
 Right.
 
 And that's good for
 
 them. It's a high runner. I I think it'll be consistent, you know. I think they could I see immediate opportunities to improve it for the next time, the next iteration, the next refresh for them. So
 
 Lei Xing (05:35)
 Well I think their current tactic is to relaunch the L series. Starting with the L9, the Livis, the L8 and then 7, 6. So it's
 
 Tu Le (05:48)
 With the current dimensions being at least five point two, five point three meters for the L9,
 
 Lei Xing (05:57)
 I mean you talk about the Li L9 Livis is a half a million RMB And then you have the NIO ES9, which is I think it's bigger, right? I think it's bigger. Starting
 
 Tu Le (06:12)
 the AITO M9 extended is also around five point four meters.
 
 Lei Xing (06:17)
 The right, the M9 I think launched on the same date almost as the L9, also in the half million RMB range. the ES9 right?
 
 Tu Le (06:25)
 That's with with
 
 with the owning the battery. If you battery swap, it's fifty-seven ish, which is an unreal number. It's an unreal starting price.
 
 Lei Xing (06:30)
 Yeah, yeah.
 
 Mm.
 
 Yeah, and it the the products they're just I mean, like the ES8, it's been a runner for seven, eight, nine months. It's one of the few models where I think it it's been consistent. but I think it's reaching that stage where it's gonna taper off because of other entrants. So everybody is facing this this short life period of how long do you keep a certain model
 
 fresh and hot selling. And that's the case for Xpeng because now Xpeng has GX as their kind of the star model. how long does that continue?
 
 So everybody is facing the same conundrum.
 
 Tu Le (07:19)
 I think they're looking to the G7 to also be a very, very popular vehicle for so
 
 Lei Xing (07:26)
 G7 upcoming Mona L03
 
 Obviously NIO and XPeng, they do have other services revenues that Li Auto don't have. and now also Li Auto launching the Mach 100 chips, right? We talk about chips. that's another thing that has happened pretty quickly, that more and more are coming out with their own SoCs.
 
 Tu Le (07:53)
 So right now we know that NIO is fabbing its own silicon. We know that Xpeng is fabbing its own silicon with a immediate opportunity to sell some of them to Volkswagen. And we see BYD now with the tianji Is it called a tianji? Xuanji Xuanji. Xuanji. And so that's 4nm So we're getting close to
 
 Lei Xing (08:06)
 Yep, that's coming.
 
 Tu Le (08:21)
 NVIDIA level innovation on some of that stuff. And there are Chinese scientists who are trying to create or develop capital equipment that isn't necessary for ASML, for Lamb Research, for KLL, for all those capital equipment makers that have limitations on on who they can sell to in China. so so it feels like
 
 an arms race in the silicon design industry as well no. So
 
 Lei Xing (08:49)
 Huawei announcing the tau. what was it? One point was it one point four or one point two nanometer? With this LogicLoading tech that Jensen's kinda like, well, then you know, TSMC they've been doing that for years. it's not new. pushing the boundaries. I think pushing the boundaries is
 
 Tu Le (08:57)
 Yeah, I
 
 What what what w what's important
 
 here, Lei, is not that the the size of the the the it's it's that you can mass produce at the smallest sizes. In SMIC, I've been told by several people is years away from
 
 Lei Xing (09:15)
 No.
 
 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (09:31)
 the knowledge, experience, and know-how that TSMC has. So it's not just if I can get my hands on this equipment, I can build the most high end chips, AI chips in the world. It's that okay, I can cause a wafer if you have a yield of 20% versus 60% versus 70%, that's a huge difference. And that's a a
 
 cost difference that is very, very meaningful. If you can only pull 20% yields, 30% yields versus, you know, 70, 80, 90 percent yields, which TSMC always pushes towards when they develop a new new technology and manufacturing or fabrication process.
 
 Lei Xing (10:15)
 Yeah, and TSMC it helps many of these Chinese right SOCs, anyways.
 
 Tu Le (10:22)
 you this, Lei, and and I know we're a few days away, so maybe it's something you and I familiarize ourselves with as we we talk about it. What were your thoughts on? Give me three high-level bullet points of your thoughts on Stellantis Investor Day, and let's just break that down. So for those me stop there. For those of you who don't know, Stellantis last Thursday.
 
 Lei Xing (10:41)
 Well, just yeah, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (10:48)
 or Tuesday, one of the had an investor day, invited a bunch of folks to Auburn Hills. Yeah, invited a bunch of folks to Auburn Hills to unveil the strategy moving forward up through 2030 with Filosa now as the CEO of the company and
 
 Lei Xing (10:53)
 Wednesday.
 
 Tu Le (11:12)
 It was fairly comprehensive down to number of products, down to brands that are going to be focused on. So I think what was important to me was they're gonna concentrate on four global brands, Fiat, Ram, Dodge, and Citroen, right? Was it those four?
 
 Lei Xing (11:31)
 Yeah. Mm-hmm.
 
 I think you got those right. Yeah. Jeep. I think Jeep was one of it one of the four. Jeep. Yeah. Yeah. Jeep. Jeep. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (11:39)
 and RAM, I think. And then the numbers that kind of stood out to me was 44 months to 24 months by 2030, and that's the product development cycle, the 60 billion that you had mentioned. he must have mentioned partnerships. He said that word a lot. And
 
 So they're gonna rely heavily on those partnerships. And then what I think a lot of people might not have known was also they had these separate press events after the major announcement to detail a little bit more. And some of the media outlets did a very good job of of summarizing some of those details. But what were your takeaways from Investor Day for Stellantis last week?
 
 Lei Xing (12:23)
 Well, obviously you look at this from a China lens is that Stellantis, according to their annual report 2025, they sold 43,000 vehicles in China in 2025 Probably the lowest among top ten global automakers. Yet they're the most integrated when it comes to Chinese.
 
 Tu Le (12:38)
 That's a rounding error
 
 Lei Xing (12:51)
 LeapMotor, Dongfeng being their partners, both providing platforms and architectures for their Citroen CSUV, a top-of-the-line Peugeot model D segment. I think that stood out to me, and then whatever they already announced before then, Producing, reproducing Jeep in the DPCA joint venture. And then that's for both China and export. So I think.
 
 Tu Le (13:14)
 Yes.
 
 Lei Xing (13:19)
 one thing that clearly stood out to me is now China as a manufacturing and export base for these foreign automakers, multinational foreign automakers, to expand their reach in the regions that may be closer to China. Southeast Asia, even South America, I think that was mentioned.
 
 they're going all in on Chinese, more so than any other foreign automakers outside of China. That's what I'm reading.
 
 Tu Le (13:48)
 And that
 
 that sentiment in London for the Financial Times seemed to be echoed by many automakers. and and effectively I read it as we can't
 
 successfully execute this plan without continuing to maintain and even deepening our partnerships with certain players, specifically the Chinese. So Stellantis is going to be building vehicles for Dongfeng in Europe. I think that's a big deal.
 
 Lei Xing (14:23)
 motor, possibly. that's the other side of what's in it for LeapMotor and Dongfeng? Well they become more international, thanks to Stellantis.
 
 Tu Le (14:34)
 for LeapMotor and Dongfeng is to drive down component costs because they're sharing sourcing platforms.
 
 Lei Xing (14:42)
 Yeah and then Dongfong and Stellantis setting up a similar international sales joint venture like the Leap Motor International. So these two kind of models are helping these two Chinese companies globalize, whereas the others NIO Xpeng they're doing it through on their own. so that's kind of the difference. Well
 
 Tu Le (15:04)
 Advantage Leap Motor
 
 Lei Xing (15:06)
 Yeah, will that be win win, it's tactically very interesting. amid the kind of the narrative, In some certain countries. We talked about Volvo, Getting the ICTS approval. which means you can always talk.
 
 Tu Le (15:22)
 I wonder if there's a gentleman's agreement between Stellantis and Leapmotor to say we won't compete directly in too many markets, whether it's the Fiat brand versus the Leapmotor brand, especially in Europe, you know, does Fiat use s LeapMotor IP and sell clean energy vehicles into Italy?
 
 a friend of ours, Glenn Mercer, he's in Italy right now and he said that he did not see too many Chinese vehicles on the streets. And so so but the
 
 Lei Xing (15:57)
 'cause Italy I know is one of the top markets for LeapMotor in terms of growth. but yeah, yeah. Sure, sure.
 
 Tu Le (16:07)
 I think 49,000 cars were exported by LeapMotor in Q1 I wanna say, maybe. I don't know. but the other number that stood out to me was that Filosa reduced his management team from 30 people to 15
 
 Lei Xing (16:21)
 Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (16:23)
 You know, I think that
 
 was it sounds meaningful, whether it's symbolic or not, we'll figure this out because you know this. I've always said that if these companies don't have the technical capabilities, they lose anyways. Even if they have the technical capabilities, which we have to assume that they do, they still need to change culture and
 
 in order to change the speed at which they do things, probably flatten out. And I think that's what Filosa is trying to do with his organization. Now, you know, it gets really, really complicated at that point because he still has to deal with some unions. I think he didn't address anything about eliminating brands. So he did mention
 
 Lei Xing (17:14)
 Well the
 
 yeah.
 
 Tu Le (17:15)
 The four global brands and everything else is gonna be regional under that. So
 
 Lei Xing (17:19)
 Yeah, the regional and then the historic, plus Maserati.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (17:26)
 Do you do you
 
 think do you think that Maserati gets bought eventually?
 
 Lei Xing (17:29)
 Whether
 
 Not out of the question.
 
 Tu Le (17:39)
 Do you think it makes sense for BYD to bring them into the fold?
 
 Lei Xing (17:44)
 Well I don't know. BYD has a lot on their plate right now, They're trying to enter Formula One. they've already launched the Denza
 
 Tu Le (17:48)
 They do.
 
 Lei Xing (17:51)
 I don't know. I mean
 
 Tu Le (17:52)
 And it's the
 
 weirdest thing. They want to enter Formula One, but they don't make any engines anymore. So do they buy the engines? So
 
 Lei Xing (18:01)
 Maybe. Who knows? But it's the other interesting thing was the fact that this was held in Auburn Hills in the US, in Michigan. All of their regional presidents, brand chiefs. and then when you talk about China, it's kinda kind of always sensitive. and what happens in North America. I don't think there was any clear indication of what happens there.
 
 But it's definitely in the back burner. but everywhere outside of China and the US, anything could be possible at this point.
 
 Tu Le (18:32)
 So let's talk about the let's take a step back. Did you follow the ES9 launch very closely?
 
 Lei Xing (18:38)
 I
 
 follow it a little bit. I watched the livestream. Yeah. I mean it's it
 
 Tu Le (18:42)
 think Yao Ming is an appropriate ambassador for and and he's not a NIO ambassador, he is ES9 ambassador.
 
 Lei Xing (18:50)
 Well, he's the ES9 CEO, Chief Experience Officer, or whatever that means. no, I think he's a great ambassador. certainly because of his size and because of his influence as a kind of a Chinese success story of a Chinese person or maybe even a brand, having played
 
 Tu Le (19:11)
 He's a global influence,
 
 by the way, not just a Chinese influence.
 
 Lei Xing (19:13)
 Yeah, right.
 
 Having played in the NBA and I think he's very smart in the way he talks and communicates things. the video that they put out was quite good because he talked about being So I think it's perfect that he talked about the taller you are, the harder you fall. and just speaks to kind of
 
 Tu Le (19:26)
 The one that he the one that
 
 Right.
 
 Lei Xing (19:37)
 what NIO went through, right? getting so big and so much on the plate. so yeah, I mean they recently they picked pretty interesting people for their launches, right? The singer, Chinese Hong Kong singer, the actor, the Hong Kong actor for the ONVO it's a great pick. couldn't be better.
 
 Tu Le (19:59)
 Yeah, and then
 
 Lei Xing (20:01)
 But I mean the ES9, I think it's gonna continue what happened to the ES8 in that kind of the price range segment because it's such a value for money type of vehicle. Where if you think about it, right? I tweeted that ten nine years ago, that would have been the price for the ES8, the original ES8. And now you have this in battery as a service mode, it's under four hundred thousand RMB.
 
 it
 
 Tu Le (20:29)
 It Li Bin, who didn't speak English this time, was on CNBC and I watched a little bit of his interview, and he basically said that things have kind of settled out. The good old days are over, the golden era in China is over. and so he said that.
 
 Lei Xing (20:36)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (20:51)
 People are the companies are leaning into technology. I kind of reading in between the lines, he was like, Yeah, the intense price war is still here, but we can't call it involution. We just, you know, it can't be called that. So we're gonna continue to put the pressure on our competitors. And they did that with a fifty-seven thousand dollar price point for the ES9 because
 
 That thing would sell well over a hundred thousand dollars in the US market. Well over
 
 Lei Xing (21:21)
 Yeah. and then he says something about now people are probably looking more at certain brands. rather than the brand does matter now a premium. And he talked about in the first quarter, I tweeted this that average selling price of NIO was fifty thousand RMB above a BMW.
 
 And 50% higher than Audi. which is very significant.
 
 Tu Le (21:44)
 to the average selling price of a Xiaomi was thirty-four thousand five hundred dollars. Just FYI. I think Li Bin is trying to will that into existence. Like brand does matter because still most companies are trying to redefine themselves, whether it's Huawei, whether it's Xpeng
 
 Stellantis, GM, they're all calling themselves technology companies. But calling yourself technology company for the sake of technology is wrong, in my opinion. You should be emphasizing your use of technology in a way that optimizes the experience for your customers, for your users. You know, that's how I think massaging that messaging is going to be important. Now, tech companies, they already have that cred.
 
 They use technology on an everyday basis. They're native to the technology aspects of of creating a great experience. But automakers are still not. And they, you know, NIO does have experience with subscriptions and services because of the battery swapping, but not many other car companies have significant experience providing services to to their customers. So that's going to be a new challenge for many of them as well.
 
 Lei Xing (23:01)
 compare NIO of today with maybe just two, three years ago, they're a lot more efficient in terms of launching a model and getting it delivered in quantity at scale. the rhythm, the planning, the rhythm. Also some of the discipline, which is reflected in their earnings. Although it's caveat is.
 
 It's non-GAAP operating earnings. they're still losing money, but I mean you compare what that with what happened to Li Auto, right? It's completely left and right. and then they're sticking to the goal of breaking even on a non-GAAP basis for the year, which I think looks promising because of the higher the ES9
 
 The ES8 I think they should be able to do it. I'll be surprised if they they don't, given the current momentum.
 
 Tu Le (23:53)
 One of the things that isn't really talked about in the media is why BYD is such a monster or Geely is a such monsters is because they do have that volume already that goes through their factories. So there's a lot of learning that they've done as they've ramped to the millions of units in annual volume. And
 
 We're starting to see that with the NIOs and the Xpeng as they consistently hit sixty, seventy thousand units. hopefully more, because I think Xpeng is talking about between a hundred, hundred and ten thousand units in Q2. but it's those low runners that has really gotten NIO some of that increased volume, the ONVOs and the fireflies to a lesser extent. And
 
 Let's say they sell those things at cost, it really creates a lot of flexibility for them for the ES7 or the ES8 and the ES9 to try to create profits from those vehicles.
 
 Lei Xing (24:52)
 Yeah, and NIO, I think their messaging has always that they pride on originality, tech development, and now it's translating through sales and profitability. And I'm hearing this their updated new world model for the ADAS part of it is pushing them possibly to the first tier of these capabilities.
 
 I mean there's been a lot of videos going around. so
 
 Tu Le (25:20)
 The I do want to ask NIO next time I'm in town to borrow an ES9 I do wanna try one out now.
 
 Lei Xing (25:29)
 there's you know, there's so many vehicles that we get wanna get our hands on. The Li Auto L9 the the Xpeng GX the NIO ES9
 
 Tu Le (25:36)
 I I wanted to drive
 
 me so I could sit in the back seat, man. So I could freaking do the do the recline.
 
 Lei Xing (25:43)
 I mean Yao Ming sitting in the second row, I mean still ample space, right? But he did make Li Bin look like a hobbit. Sorry, Li Bin, but that's how it looked. It's so funny, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (25:50)
 man.
 
 So let me
 
 talk about my week and a half. I get home from China, spend a week at home, say hi to my kids, and then I'm off to Montreal. I was invited by a company called Stingray. They are doing in vehicle infotainment.
 
 Lei Xing (26:05)
 Yeah, like bye bye.
 
 Stingray is in my Tesla, so my daughter has tried it. Quite interesting. Quite interesting.
 
 Tu Le (26:18)
 Yeah, right. And so
 
 they are providing karaoke to BYD vehicles. And you know, Jim Riley, who's the president, he is a subscriber of the newsletter and you know, a lot of time, hey, I'm gonna be in Munich for the auto show. He reaches out, stopped by our booth, met him, and so Stingray sponsored a media conference.
 
 Lei Xing (26:23)
 She she she was saying Taylor Swift. Yeah. So
 
 Tu Le (26:43)
 in Montreal where they're headquartered. And it just so happened to be the same weekend as F1, the Grand Prix, the Canadian Grand Prix. And so I went, participated in a speaking panel with LG and with Bloomberg Media. So the the two-day conference I learned so much because you and I are in the mobility space, but how content is
 
 Lei Xing (26:48)
 to that point.
 
 Tu Le (27:09)
 consume nowadays, how content is created, which platforms are popular amongst which demos and which apps are trying to create partnerships across these platforms. It was really, really, really interesting. LG had a huge presence. I didn't realize they were such large players in the media part. But then
 
 I come home and I have an LG TV and they have the Web OS with all the apps. So I'm now able to connect some dots that I never was able to connect before. And so first of all, thanks to Jim, Rick, Dave, and Eric, the entire Stingray team. And then I stayed for work for F1 and
 
 We were the one corporate booth away from the starting line. and it was a you know, it's a unique experience. And every day until Sunday, it was sunny and it wasn't hot. And but we were covered. And and so it was a great, great experience because they had Formula Two races and they had qualifying, they had the sprint. So I
 
 Lei Xing (28:06)
 Wow. So you got a good view.
 
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (28:28)
 No details on F1. I've never been to an F1 event, didn't follow it. So I'm asking, I'm peppering people with questions like what does this mean? What does that mean? What does this mean? What does that mean? And so learned a lot. Was unfortunately didn't have paddock access, but everything but like we're in this corporate booth, they brought in lunch, they brought in snacks, and then it's a weird experience because racing, because you sit there
 
 at one part of the track and the the loop is a little over a minute long. So these drivers every minute they pass by and so the the one thing I will mention is like lap 62 or something like that or 60 or 68 Lewis Hamilton went around Verstappen overtook Verstappen and so that was around the first hairpin so so I'm looking
 
 Lei Xing (29:13)
 Or it takes first yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (29:21)
 And it's in the distance and I saw it happen in real time. So I did get to see that. And like yeah, it was actually really cold and on Sunday. But it's on an island in Montreal. you had to go there and yeah, and and then we had dinner after the F1 race.
 
 Lei Xing (29:33)
 Island, yeah. I watched the yeah. I watched it on Netflix, so yeah.
 
 Tu Le (29:45)
 And then I went to sleep for like two hours and took the 6 a.m. flight back to Michigan in order to try to spend Memorial Day with my family. And and then earlier this week, so I spent one day back in Michigan and then I drove to Mackinac for the policy conference. And thank you to Glenn, to Paul and to Drew for inviting me.
 
 Lei Xing (30:04)
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (30:11)
 The Mich Auto event. I stayed at the Grand Hotel for an evening. And they have a special dinner. So got to see Koller Hellenbuck and I forget the woman's name and I I I suck. But she was also a gold medal winner. Both based, both grew up in Michigan. And then the the final panel discussion was with Tom Izzo, Dusty May, Jalen Rose, and Greg Kelser. So there's a lot of
 
 Lei Xing (30:26)
 Great.
 
 nice.
 
 Tu Le (30:39)
 healthy, friendly ribbing going on between the Michigan and Michigan State folks. But what a what a great, great day and a half that I spent in Mackinac. So
 
 Lei Xing (30:46)
 Yeah.
 
 Jalen Rose is a brand ambassador for DreamE. Because he was at CES Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm looking at Ford Motor. Its stock is up almost 50% over the last month. Not in my bingo card.
 
 Tu Le (30:54)
 Yeah, I I didn't know that. Really?
 
 Yeah.
 
 So they have pivoted towards energy storage. So and and I did get a chance to sit down and talk to Bob Lee, Joe White and I did, who is the the LG North America head. So that was a very interesting conversation. More to come on that later. what the reason we were invited up, Joe and I
 
 Lei Xing (31:09)
 Yeah.
 
 Energy, yeah, yeah. So
 
 No.
 
 Tu Le (31:34)
 Basically Glenn Stevens, who's the director at Mich Auto, wanted us to give an unfiltered overview of of what we think the current automotive landscape, global automotive landscape looks like. And it was a private session, so there's about fifty executives, including some CEOs that were sitting in there and it was you know, Joe and I weren't
 
 We're not pulling any punches. so but did get a lot of positive feedback about the things that we said. And you know, what I can say is we talked about China, obviously. We talked about and this is nothing new for the folks that are listening to China EVs and more. As we pivot towards China, the technology company threat is looming large. And, you know, I emphasized
 
 One of the ways that we're keeping China out is through our data restrictions. But does Volvo, you know, approval now kind of you that does that open the door to the Chinese? It seems like it might. you know, and I could totally see one or two companies taking a chance saying, despite this 100% tariff, try to start importing into the US.
 
 Lei Xing (32:41)
 Love it.
 
 I mean the leverage so the Geely being a parent company aside, so Volvo has been Volvo is almost a hundred year old company. They were founded in 1927, right? They've been in the US for 71 years. And then they've invested I don't know how much money they put that in the news release. So those are all leverage, right? And yeah. and it kind of portends
 
 What could happen if you are like that? I mean, and the possibility of that South Carolina production base.
 
 Tu Le (33:27)
 Which is probably at a 55 percent capacity utilization rate. It's very low.
 
 Lei Xing (33:28)
 I think it could open up also.
 
 And
 
 So BYD, I think we we should touch upon BYD. we've seen the chips, we've seen the press conference, we've seen Wang Chang Fu. I love when Wang Chuang Fu when he speaks and then he drops the bomb and then he laughs. He's like, heh. I love when he does that. You know, like and so the price war, this is what I'm thinking. BYD is
 
 Elevating how the price war is done by covering your asses. If you're in the city NOA mode, if anything happens, they will cover all the cost involved in an accident. That's a non
 
 Tu Le (34:20)
 Incl including
 
 intellig including intelligent parking.
 
 Lei Xing (34:23)
 yes, so two. So that's the latest non-price price war that's other people are may have to be forced to follow. Because remember a few years ago in twenty twenty three, when this thing was started, it was Tesla announced a price cut and then BYD followed with the champion and the honor additions, right? Kind of the refreshing products.
 
 Tu Le (34:28)
 Yeah.
 
 For the first year. They they're gonna do it for the first year.
 
 Lei Xing (34:50)
 And now the price war basically you don't see that anymore. You just see refreshed product launches packing more punch but at the same price. And now BYD is saying, you know, we're gonna cover, we're gonna be a fallback. for a year at least.
 
 Tu Le (35:05)
 And and and
 
 they they also are trying to
 
 Comply to the 60-day payment terms,
 
 Lei Xing (35:18)
 right. Those are completely I mean they're right. I saw some bar charts of their once that's gone. yeah. then the other part of it is just the the chip part of it is I think a lot of people don't realize that they've been at this for all almost a quarter century. there's a story there was a story of Wang Chuang Fu at the airport on 911 in Europe.
 
 Tu Le (35:35)
 Yeah, the the the that's to that's
 
 Lei Xing (35:45)
 Because he was on a trip trying to source and trying to buy chip companies. This was in 2001, well before they moved into making cars. and then they they had this unit set up in 2002, I think, for IC integrated circuit design unit.
 
 So it's just a matter of time, I guess.
 
 Tu Le (36:08)
 To me, to me,
 
 batteries and silicon design and fabrication, simple fabrication is foundational and part of their DNA. it's not something they've developed, the muscle they've developed recently. It's it's foundational to who BYD is. So
 
 Lei Xing (36:24)
 I mean BYD is a electronics company. It's a battery company. And now it's a chip company. I mean Wang Chuang Fu joked. He said if it they'd had that success during dot com bubble, they could have been probably the world's leading chip company now.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (36:43)
 Well, he would have to he buy a leather jacket like Jensen Huang and effectively fly the world promoting NVIDIA or, you know, BYD that way, so
 
 Lei Xing (36:56)
 But then here's the thing, right? So this has been announced, yeah, it's it's awfully difficult, I think, in the current competitive environment. Even with that, even with these ADAS features as standardized, low prices, it's still extremely difficult to sell.
 
 that's the competition everyone is confronting these days. So yeah.
 
 Tu Le (37:23)
 That's why to me it's I I just feel in my heart that BYD is gonna be a player. they're going through all these challenges and struggles right now, but you know, one thing I'd mentioned to journalist that I talked to this week was that
 
 I think Wang Chuan Fu and Stella Li are getting a much better appreciation of what Toyota has been able to accomplish because they're seeing much more intense competition from the domestic market, which is foundational for them to get to the 10 million unit to compete on Toyota's level. And the path to 10 million is now much slower for them because every Chinese player, or I won't say this.
 
 Lei Xing (38:04)
 Yeah, if
 
 Tu Le (38:07)
 anywhere BYD is, there's likely more than one Chinese player that's also competing against them.
 
 Lei Xing (38:14)
 I mean two years ago when I think BYD was on the high, Li Auto was on the high. We were looking two years ago, thinking that Li Auto could be doing a million units by now. Around this time. We're thinking about BYD doing six million. And look where reality is now.
 
 Tu Le (38:33)
 they'll be lucky to get to be flat, I think. They'll probably and I don't know what would worry me from ratio standpoint of exports to domestic sales, but they gotta continue to grow in China, even if it's much more difficult.
 
 Lei Xing (38:49)
 Not
 
 Yeah, speaking of Pivot, I think Li Bin, he recently looks like they're kind of retooling the European business a bit. maybe walking back a little bit from the tactics and strategies and focus on the Chinese market more.
 
 Tu Le (39:06)
 Well because because they're
 
 they're selling in the tens in some markets in Europe. So
 
 Lei Xing (39:09)
 Yeah.
 
 as Xpeng right, their goal is definitely, I mean, Brian talked about it, He Xiao Peng talked about it, is it's accounting. I mean, I think in April overseas accounted for 20% And in five years they want that to be 50% and they're actually looking, The other guy that you went the conference, the UK guy, talked about looking for a new production facility.
 
 Tu Le (39:29)
 That's
 
 Lei Xing (39:37)
 They have three overseas now.
 
 So Li Auto this is a big year for their international right.
 
 Tu Le (39:42)
 Well yeah, yeah. So so so tell us what their
 
 big announcement about exporting is, their international strategy. What's their linchpin?
 
 Lei Xing (39:49)
 first they're exhibiting at the Paris Motor Show. Second, they're launching the i6 there.
 
 i6 is a thirty five thousand dollar EV, two hundred fifty thousand.
 
 Tu Le (40:02)
 I'm curious to see how
 
 where it lands pricing wise in Europe. I'm curious to see that.
 
 Lei Xing (40:06)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah.
 
 I mean fifty thousand Euros, probably still a good deal.
 
 Tu Le (40:16)
 Yeah, like it. it's it's not super distinctive to me styling wise. I like the interior, but it you know, it's nice. At thirty five thousand it was nice. At fifty thousand euros, I just don't know at fifty to fifty five thousand euro if that's something that is gonna be super competitive at that price point in Europe. So 'cause then you're pulling in
 
 Lei Xing (40:16)
 I don't
 
 It it handles and but
 
 Tu Le (40:40)
 BYDs, you're pulling in Xpengs and things like that. And and it
 
 Lei Xing (40:44)
 Xiaomi will be be there. I mean Xiaomi officially, Second half launch in Europe, 2027
 
 Tu Le (40:51)
 'Cause I'll be honest with you and I I haven't driven the G7 yet, but all you know, price being equal, I'd probably lean G7 than i6 you know, so
 
 Anyways, man, that's all I really have.
 
 Lei Xing (41:03)
 Okay, yeah.
 
 Yeah, same here. just kind of a epic week to end May.
 
 Tu Le (41:09)
 Yeah, Now my sons get out of school on the third, so summer officially begins on the fourth and I'm gonna try to be a homebody for most of summer. So
 
 Lei Xing (41:22)
 Yeah, my daughter is going to France today. So we'll be free the two of us will be free for for about ten days. No no no just a school trip.
 
 Tu Le (41:26)
 really? Nice.
 
 For volleyball or
 
 Wow, dude, that's fancy. That's fancy, man. So you and your wife can go party. You're gonna sleep early is what you're gonna do. So anyways
 
 Lei Xing (41:37)
 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
 
 Well, by
 
 the time we get to our age, first of all you never sleep early and second, you never wake up late.
 
 Tu Le (41:54)
 So yeah, I'm well, I'm trying to get back to a normal sleep routine. But everyone, as always, thanks for joining us. We should be normal time, normal place next week as well. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you all next week.
 
 Lei Xing (42:08)
 Yep, I'm good in June. I'm good in June. Yep.
 
 Bye bye!